[amanthani]

preface: i am a complete neophyte and formulate only for myself (and do lots and lots of reading and experimenting)

i do recall i had added water directly into the beaker containing my SA/prop gly mix and was rewarded with an opaque, crystal-laden, shard soup.. not fun..

i found a ratio (on a supplier’s site) of 16 g prop. gly : 2 g SA.. this, along with NOT heating to dissolve the SA (which means lots and lots o’ stirring) = no crystallization issues in my final products.. done it this way many times.. 

ive got an azelaic acid 8%, SA 2%, 10% prop gly micellar water here and it is lovely.. i added the AA/SA/prop gly to small amount of sea buckthorn berry co2 oil which was previously combined with a liquid emulsifier (PEG-6 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides (and) Polyglycerol-6 Dioleate (and) Glyceryl Caprylate/Caprate).. topped it off with a pre-combined water phase/extracts/preservative system of phytocide aspen bark at 3%, japanese honeysuckle and an active antimicrobial silver citrate at 0.3%.. checked pH at the end..

please, when should i test my pH? test the AA/SA/prop gly first? or testing the end formula is okay? also i would like to know, please, where in the process does the SA decide whether or not to precipitate back out from the prop. gly.? does my theory about not applying heat .. ahem.. hold any water? or is there a degree of ‘superstition’ being adhered to in my avoidance of heating the SA/prop gly? 

i have been called loquacious.. thank you all for reading/responding..

[amanthani]

First, thank you for your swift response.. and apologies for my delinquent reply..

Glass Muller: brilliant..! i had to purchase a rather small one, but its leaps and bounds above the iteration of doom inherent in the curvature of the mortar and pestle’s design.. (aka: relentless “grind-grind-grind-slurry-oh no, its all on the sides” and 8 utensils later im still unable to (hygienically) get said slurry OFF said tools/mortar, back into the center where, again, i grind-grind-grind-oh look, its up on the sides again.. *face-palm*)  neophyte color cosmetics formulators know precisely this iteration of doom i mentioned here..

back to the muller: i have a large, smooth glass cutting board (dedicated to muller-ing), would this glass be sufficient?  it is 16″ x 12″ x 1/4″ deep, approx.. the muller works well on it; there’s this awesome ‘suction effect’ that pulverizes the color quickly.. i am having difficulty getting the slurry off of the glass “plate”.. tilt-scrape-gather seems so inefficient.. (99% isopropyl alcohol, stearamine tablets, and something called ‘c brite’ are all employed in my workshop and on all utensils.. scrape and gather is not as unsanitary as it sounds!)

and as far as the osterizer, (which i believe is in the mailroom.. i ordered one but am content to use my hitachi drill with jiffy mixer attachments for all other applications.. have to go pick it up..) you suggest i blend the dry pigments in there prior to the muller? my color concentrate formula is in three parts:

a red component consisting of: 0.3 ultramarine pink 0.3 maganese violet 0.4 red with blue undertone 0.5 magnesium stearate 1.0 zinc oxide

a yellow component consisting of: 0.5 yellow oxide 0.1-0.2 brown oxide 0.3-0.4 matte serecite 1.0 zinc oxide and 0.5 hdi/vinyl dimethicone crosspolymer

and 10 g of a white base, containing at least 5 g Ti02 0.5 nylon 12 1.0 boron nitride 1.0 mica spheres 0.5 silica/vinyl dimethicone crosspolymer 2.0 serecite mica (etc)

blending each component individually is not a problem, but would the osterizer ruin mica spheres, boron nitride (which i believe has a hexagonal shape), etc? i do not use any sparkly micas.. hate those, grr.. 

those blender cups:  i have been looking everywhere for (well, obviously not..) thank you! are you suggesting that an auxiliary blade apparatus is required for those small blending cups, or that the auxiliary blades are generally recommended for pigment blending in said cups/blender?

your time and attention and expertise and patience are greatly appreciated and valued..  thanks so much for reading, responding, (and not judging).. 

[amanthani]

microspheres are a texture enhancer and are quite lovely, honestly.. very velvety and smooth with a natural hue.that lends a natural glow to the skin.. i have some from several places online and makingcosmetics.com’s are very nice.. tkb trading sells some, too.. http://howtomakecosmetics.com/ thats their new mobile-friendly site, supposedly.. 

those measurements do not sound outlandish to my neophyte eyes.. this is a concealor formula you are working on, no? so one would assume it would be thick, water-resistant/long wearing and dense in texture.. i do not know.. but you should reference many formulations and then get a generalized view.. start with a simple formulation, or just one that strikes your fancy and make tiny batches.. I do 10 grams for tests.. which is a lot.. but the math is simple, so I am selective and try to keep waste at a bare minimum.. 

but, i digress..

[amanthani]

search google patents for information on using said products.. it takes time and patience and lots of reading (and a modicum of space on you PC for saving articles of import), but having zero background in chemistry (save what i learned in HS and college) I am comfortable reading through patents and substituting/experimenting with formulations that seem applicable to my task..

i formulate solely for myself, and color cosmetics are my current labor of love.. Unfortunately for me, the Creasperse people’s response to my inquiry was less than helpful.. They told me that they are unable to ship samples to the USA and I am not flush enough to invest in the minimum quantity for a “maybe this will work” type of item.. 

Good luck with the samples and let us know how you made out, please.. 

[amanthani]

Greetings, all.. Been running into the same situation (to a certain extent) here in my home formulating workshop..

“2) Adding a chemical dispersant..”

Would you please offer a few suggestions? I say a few because as a home formulator, creating for personal use only, my access is restricted to commerical sites that deal with the general public.. (Bigger named distributors want nothing to do with me and believe me, I have asked.. Without a sales base and website, I get no further responses.. Sadly..)

“3) Adding particulate ingredients…”

Again, would you please suggest a few..

Also, I am grinding approx 1.6% yellow oxide, 0.4% red oxide w/blue undertone, 0.3% manganese violet, and 0.05 to 0.15% brown oxide with 14% ti02 to get my color concentrate and it matches my skin tone well.. I have the Fitzpatrick’s I light skin that always burns and the lightest shades of Hourglass, Nars, Clinique, and the newer Laura Mercier incarnation (and many other department store brands of foundation makeup) look so yellow on me..Oompa Loompa, if you follow my meaning, is the effect on my skin..

But I digress..

I have tried mixing the individual oxides with isoeicosane, then combining them at the relative percentages.. This worked well except there was a white film on top of the finished concentrate.. Tried Alkyl Benzyl Esters in the same fashion, but once in formulation with emulsifier and fatty alcohol, thickeners, etc. It clumped up into what I can only liken to curds of cottage cheese-like masses in a soup of beige colored oils..

It’s so sad.. I hate wasting ingredients.. And I have been wanting to post here for quite some time. I apologize in advance for the excessively long message and thank you all for reading and responding..

[amanthani]

greetings and salutations!

my name is ivy and i am a techie, trekkie, and movie/visual media connoisseur (nerd) this obsessed with cosmetic chemistry, of late.. pouring through google patents, utilizing datasheets and the internet in general, i have amassed close to 50 notebooks full of info since april this past year when this journey began.. (i also have a thing for words and stationary, so notebooks are always piling up around me!)

i have been to this forum many, many times while troubleshooting/exploring formulas for my personal use favs. like cleansing cream, body lotion, facial moisturizers for those of us with blemish issues, cleansing conditioner (thanks to perry’s post a little while back on the viability of the ‘wen’ formulation, i had a long awaited success that very night.. you mentioned a suave conditioner, i believe, that used CETAC as a better option for a cleansing conditioner; cationic surfactant being absent from the wen formulation as the rationale there.. but i digress..)

life goals.. gee.. if i could, i would love to do what you all do and formulate professionally full-time.. it does not seem plausible, however, and i see myself doing this as a hobby and on a personal use capacity, long term.. though, i was trying to scrape together the funds for perry’s cosmetic formulation course that was accepting applicants this past august.. but, again, solely for personal use formulations.. 

i have a degree in criminal justice, i build computers and am a+ certified, help friends with their tech and phones and various other electronic equipment for fun, mostly.. going back to school for either master’s in sociology/psychology.. or pursue my ultimate dream of practicing law (civil liberties).. 

i can talk and talk and talk and love intelligent debates about anything.. ill play devil’s advocate for fun, challenge boundaries, etc.. as long as the tone is calm and non-aggressive.. i do not like conflict (id say, who does? but clearly, there are those who LOVE drama.. again, i digress)

this is important, though: the existence of this forum is beneficial and important and a necessary asset.. i thank perry and the knowledgeable gurus here who contribute and keep this place going with their time and effort.. speaking as neophyte, for all of us neophytes, the knowledge you all share is so, so, so very helpful and appreciated.. thank you..

looking forward to discussing with all of you! best regards, all..