[Abdullah]

Pharma said:

PhilGeis said:

…
Capryl hydroxamate is an iron chelator  - (like ZPT - another hydroxamate)- competes with hydroxamic acid siderophores such as those fungi use to solubilize/transport iron…

Not just that, it also complexes zinc and copper very well. The trick isn’t just about making micronutrients unavailable for microbes but complexing these metals within enzymes to render the whole machinery useless. At least, that’s the hypothesis. It’s also a medium chain fatty acid derivative and many of these have a certain inherent antimicrobial potential. However, having worked with hydroxamic acid derivatives, I’m highly sceptical and fairly concerned about their safety.

Thanks. 
So you mean CHA is a strong preservative when used in blends?

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks. I have used in the past these blends. Benzyl alcohol and DHA @%1.1, sb and ps @%1.6.
In blind test i can say almost every time which one has one of these two preservatives and which one has Glyceryl Caprylate and CHA. The last one feels better.
benzyl alcohol and phenoxyethanol are acceptable if there is no milder alternative in reasonable price range and in amounts no more than %0.5. the rest should be milder preservatives.

I have used Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl in Shampoo. It had the best feeling. Maybe because of its conditioning effect. But it is not compatible with chelating agents EDTA and sodium phytate and it is expensive too. so i am not using it in Shampoo anymore.

There is a blend called SymOcide PH which is claimed to be broad spectrum.
Phenoxyethanol  %0.6
Hydroxyacetophenone  %0.25
Caprylyl Glycol  %0.1
Water %0.05

So would adding %0.2 or %0.3 hydroxyacetophenone make this blend strong enough?

Glyceryl Caprylate %1
Hydroxyacetophenone %0.2 or 0.3
CHA  %0.1
EDTA or sodium phytate %0.1

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis interesting
this is a patented preservative blend by Inolex. Spectrastat™ G2 Natural MB
Caprylhydroxamic acid  %0.1
Glyceryl Caprylate  %0.75
Glycerin   %0.15

Why would they spend time and money patenting what is not effective enough? 

I also use Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl in with glyceryl caprylate in some lotions. What is your opinion about that?

What preservative blend do you suggest? (no formaldehye releasers, parabens and mi/cmi)

[Abdullah]

They are wrong

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis that is good information to know. I will increase the amount of EDTA from %0.1 to %0.2 then. My preservatives are %0.1 caprylhydroxamic acid and %1 Glyceryl Caprylate in Shampoo.

Can you give some information on which one of these pathogens grow more in which type of products or environments?

- Staphylococcus aureus

- e coli
- Candida albicans
- Aspergillus niger

[Abdullah]

Decyl Glucoside is mild but it makes the Skin dry.
Reduce cationic guar to <%0.3

Increase your preservative to %1.

You need more anionic surfactant.

Is your sci completely solubilized in water?

[Abdullah]

I use 6:1 

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks 
@PhilGeis which microbes grow in Shampoo most?

The ingredients are surfactants, polyquaternium 10, essential oil, NACL, and Amodimethicone in near future. 

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

You have to understand that terms like Night Cream and Day Cream are marketing terms. There is no scientific definition. It’s just defined by what people expect. 

Cyclomethicone is added to ingredients to get the benefits of silicone (shine, slickness, smoothness) without the downside of building up on hair. In skin products it can make the product feel lighter than say a dimethicone I suppose but it takes enough time that you might not notice that over time.

I doubt you would see much benefit if you’re already using high end emollients.

When it doesn’t stay in hair like dimethicone does, will it’s effects like shine, slickness, smoothness remain there when all Cyclomethicone has evaporated? 

[Abdullah]

I was also trying to make gentle shampoo with APG but it was not gentle and not effective. As @Perry suggested i used SLES, CAPB and polyquaternium 10. Now i am selling it and it is the mildest Shampoo available where i live. Thanks Perry. 

At What ratio AOS/CAPB are you using and can it be thickened with sodium chloride? 

[Abdullah]

EDTA and citric acid is not compatible with cationics. I haven’t used BTMC but it may not be compatible too. 
Check it your self.
Add some SPDMA and EDTA in water and heat, it will form salt and you will not be able to dissolve that salt no matter what. 

My suggestion is this

SPDMA   %1
BTMC     %1
Dimethicone %1
Cetearyl alcohol  %6
Preservative

Fragrance

Adjust pH with lactic acid or another acid

[Abdullah]

What is this product? Cream or hair conditioner?

[Abdullah]

In my experience Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine is not compatible with EDTA and citric acid. They form insoluble salt. 
Check these one by one and see if they are compatible

[Abdullah]

@Perry thanks ????

[Abdullah]

@Pharma so a treatment with (P < 0.01) is better than (P < 0.05). Am i correct? 

[Abdullah]

Do you have fatty alcohol in your inventory?

[Abdullah]

Yeah @ozgirl is right.

Never use such product. Lauryl Glucoside as primary surfactant doesn’t foam, doesn’t clean the hair and make it very dry in pH 5-6. At very high pH it will be worse

[Abdullah]

Thanks

[Abdullah]

Thanks @MetalizeMerz

[Abdullah]

@singhc10 thanks

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis may i ask why you don’t like DHA? 

[Abdullah]

Use %1 glyceryl caprylate, %0.1 caprylhydroxamic acid, %0.1 EDTA or other chelating agent.

[Abdullah]

Congratulations

[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

@Sponge mine is 200ml Shampoo bottle and 80ml lotion tube