[Abdullah]

DaveStone said:

Abdullah said:

tretinoin may make it dry. 

One reason can be lipid loss. 

One reason can be a disease.

One reason can be your mild cleanser. What are the ingredients of this?

Try to use low pH moisturizer and products. pH 4 or below.

The cleanser I’ve been using lately is Cerave: Aqua / Water / Eau, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine, Glycerin, Sodium
Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Peg-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate, Niacinamide,
Peg-6 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides, Sodium Methyl Cocoyl Taurate,
Propylene Glycol, Ceramide NP, Ceramide AP, Ceramide EOP, Carbomer,
Methylparaben, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, Cholesterol,
Disodium EDTA, Propylparaben, Citric Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA, Hydrolyzed
Hyaluronic Acid, Phytosphingosine, Xanthan Gum.

Before that I used Dove Beauty Bar, which is what I use on the rest of my body. The PH of that is apparently 7. I read some online sources that claim Cerave’s PH is 5.5.

Us that Dove or a face wash with more anionic and less amphoteric surfactant to wash your face too and see if it gets better. 

I haven’t used sultaine at high levels but CAPB at high level can cause skin to become dry and then very oily in reaction. 

[Abdullah]

@vitalys i mean 5% petrolatum prevents 98% TEWL and dimethicone only 20-30%. So how 1% dimethicone is skin protectant and 41% petrolatum isn’t? 

[Abdullah]

tretinoin may make it dry. 

One reason can be lipid loss. 

One reason can be a disease.

One reason can be your mild cleanser. What are the ingredients of this?

Try to use low pH moisturizer and products. pH 4 or below.

[Abdullah]

@Perry can I ask a question!

Does isoelectric point mean a pH that pHs above that has negative charge and below that has positive charge? 

For example isoelectric point of skin is about 4.8. does it mean at pH below 4.8 like pH 4 the skin will have positive charge and at pH above that like pH 5.5 the skin would have negative charge? 

[Abdullah]

@Paprik @vitalys how can 1% dimethicone compet with 30% petrolatum for TEWL? 
Skin protection maybe something else. 

[Abdullah]

@CedarS thanks

[Abdullah]

thanks @CedarS 
Does your shampoo have cationic polymer or silicone? 

If yes which one? 

[Abdullah]

Thanks Perry

[Abdullah]

@Perry @ketchito thank you both.

Also how many pages does your book “Principles of Polymer Science and Technology in Cosmetics and Personal Care” has? 

The version i have has 667 page’s

[Abdullah]

Thanks @klangridge 
That was very helpful. 

[Abdullah]

They are not the problem. 
The problem is too much betaine, DEA and silicone

[Abdullah]

sanamine said:

Abdullah said:

It is about 75% active

75.428571428571%

Thank you very much Abdullah. So, if i didn’t a mistake i suppose full resultants are : 
Active content is (75%)
Sodium sulfate approximately (2%)
Water is (23%)

Important is active surfactant. 
There maybe other things too. I don’t know. 
You may add preservative too

[Abdullah]

@Perry thanks 

What about scalp? 

[Abdullah]

@Perry thanks. 
I will do such claim too hahahah. 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah My apologies, I should have added the edition from the book (the one from 1999). I’m pasting a couple of screenshots where you can find the info I mentioned. 

My comment about the water soluble cationic polymer (WSCP) vs amodimethicone in a shampoo, was just to show that the WSCP in the presence of some anionic surfactants (like SLES) will form a coacervate (neutral) during dilution rather than being in a free cationic state. This complex will force the system to invest energy to keep it in the system (it’s like holding a baby that suddenly gained 40kg).  That’s why coacervates readily stick to any surface which is good in terms of short term condicioning, but not only they don’t deposit in specific sites, they are hard to remove (at least, not completely). Amodimethicones on the other hand, they have both electrostatic (charge) and dispersion (size) forces to deposit on a surface. Dimethicones can actually deposit along with the coacervate (that’s why PQ’s and Guar gums are said to increade silicone deposition), but that’s not the case with amodimethicones. In the case of emulsions, you have WSCP in a free cationic state, and the competition for binding sites with amodimethicones is more straightforward (but interestingly, cationic surfactants do increase deposition of amodimethicones in emulsion systems). 

@ketchito@ketchito thanks a lot for screen shot and comment. 
In the past i had made shampoo with Amodimethicone without cationic polymers and the feeling was not good. Maybe because i was using too much Amodimethicone. I will make another samples tomorrow and see how it feels.

Now i am wondering if cationic polymer compet with Amodimethicone then why evey company is using it with Amodimethicone in shampoo?

Is cationic polymer like guar gum better than Amodimethicone for wet or dry hair comb or antistatic or any other conditioning benefit?

This comparison shows 0.3% PQ10 for hair combing is equal to 0.5% behenamidopropyl dimethylamine and that is better than CTAC, BTAC and SPDMA cationic surfactants.
Is PQ10 or cationic guar also better than Amodimethicone that that they are using it with Amodimethicone?

[Abdullah]

How much DMDM hydantoin and benzyl alcohol is there?

[Abdullah]

I mean from base shampoo formula, make several samples. Add these extra ingredients one in each sample. Then evaluate which one is not stable. 

[Abdullah]

Are you selling this product or for your own use? 

SLES, CAPB, amphodiacetate preservative with some sodium chloride makes stable formula. Add ingredients one by one and see which one cause separation

[Abdullah]

It is about 75% active

75.428571428571%

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah You can find the support to my statement in the page 301 of the book “Principles of Polymer Science and Technology in Cosmetics and Personal Care” (chapter Silicones in cosmetics).
thanks a lot for this interesting book. But I couldn’t find this in page 301 . I have attached page 301 screenshot. Is it this page?

 It’s only fair to think that if the driving force for the deposition of a molecule is of electrostatic nature, molecules of the opposite charge to the substrate will compete for these sites (eg., cationic polymers, cationic silicones, cationic surfactants, cationic aminoacids/peptides, cationic inorganic ions, etc.). Since small molecules difuse faster, they can bind easier to anionic binding sites (that’s why sodium ions and cationic surfactants bind preferentially than cationic polymers o silicones).
i agree with you but when we see that everyone is using a cationic polymer with Amodimethicone then the question rise’s that why.

Now, when you compare a cationic (water soluble) polymer vs amodimethicone, it depends on your system; if you have a shampoo and a coacervate is likely to be formed, then the means of deposition of the cationic polymer will be through reduction of free energy in your system.
Sorry i couldn’t understand this part. Can you explain it a bit!

If on the other hand you have a conditioner in which a cationic polymer and amodimethicone are present, then both molecules are likely to compete rather than help each other deposit (consider that keeping a hydrophilic cationic polymer suspended in your system requires less energy than keeping a cationic silicone, and also, there’s a barrier surrounding cationic polymers (solvated by water molecules). With that, I mean that for big molecules, there’s more than one driving force for deposition. 
yes i agree

@ketchito

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks

[Abdullah]

@vitalys @ariepfadli thanks

[Abdullah]

@Pharma @PhilGeis then what percentage of salt is prohibitive to microbial growth?

Also does 35 g/100 ml solubility mean 35%?

[Abdullah]

@jemolian yeah but some say 4.5 and that confuses me

[Abdullah]

Maybe centuries ago these surfactants weren’t available.  

Now that it has better alternative why use it? 

Centuries ago we were traveling on donkey. That was best on that time because there wasn’t a better option available. Now that we have care the donkey is no longer the best option. 
Although donkey is natural and car is unnatural too hahaha.