[Abdullah]

EDTA always help.

If you can share the result of pet test we will know what is the weakness in your product and suggest you a preservative that is effective for that. 

Usually a blend of preservatives is used because one preservative will be overkill for one organism and weak for another

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Don’t store -it’s not that stable.

Thanks a lot.

[Abdullah]

@ketchito thanks 

Any comments on when this dilution deposition is happening?

When we apply shampoo to wet hair and shampoo is diluted with water or when we are rinsing the foam from hair? 

Because when we are applying shampoo to wet hair it dilutes with around 10 times water there to create lather. 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis hello

A question.

I make 5kg of 100ppm hypochlorite solution by mixing 10g bleach with 4990g water. After sanitization i recycle and store the remaining solution and use it next time and next time.
When the quantity left is not enough, i make another 5kg batch and mix it with this recycled one and use it. 

My questions are

1. Is there any time limit or recycling limit for this 100ppm hypochlorite solution like for how many days i can store it or how many time i can recycle it after sanitization of equipments? 

2. Is it ok if i mix new batch with recycled one of 100ppm hypochlorite solution and use it? 

[Abdullah]

If you are manufacturer and don’t have homogenizer, don’t use 70%. If you have homogenizer go for 70%.

[Abdullah]

If your product has a lot of water, for example it is emulsion or solution, then there is no difference in gram and ml. 
100g of your product will be 100ml. 
Even 1kg shampoo 1L.

If it is waterless then it would be different.

I write gram weight in all my products.

People here think 100g lotion is more than 100ml lotion. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

probably - keep pH neutral or slightly acidic

Good

Thanks

[Abdullah]

Fekher said:

@Abdullah Anionic active is near from 8

Thanks

[Abdullah]

Paprik said:

The “problem” with hair is, the more you wash it, the more is produces sebum. Same with skin. People with acne like to wash their face often, as they think it will remove all the extra sebum and clear out the acne. However, when you remove the sebum/oil, skin thinks it’s dry and produces more and more. 
I do wash my hair everyday, but a lot of women do not. Yet, they can still have not-oily hair for days. It’s because it is used to it. 
I would maybe try to reduce the frequency of washing. (I know, it’s nearly impossible, at least for me. Imagining what transfers onto my pillow, having shower without pouring hot water on my head, etc … )
It should adapt over time. 

Also, if you literally strip your hair and scalp of all sebum (let’s call it harsh surfactant), no wonder it fights it back. Try something with more superfatting agent, to “re-hydrate” the hair and scalp. 

Agree with you. 

Do you think EGDS will rehydrate the hair? 

It also has Amodimethicone?

[Abdullah]

Fekher said:

@Abdullah you are welcome it is very good preservative according to my experience Euxyl k120 with level between 0.05% and 0.1%  just shampoo as you know it has not only anionic surfactants  because you said ” what anionic preservative” 

My phone outo correct did change the word. 

I ment how much anionic surfactant you have in this 9%?

[Abdullah]

@ketchito what do you think x-axis is in this chart? 
And in y-axis does 2 mean two parts water one part product or one part water one part product that becomes two parts? 

[Abdullah]

Syl said:

I agree, as a rule you should not use a drying shampoo. It has just been my experience that a minority of people needed a stronger shampoo. Some of those people might also have a scalp condition and really need a medicated shampoo. I use 10% coco-glucoside, my shampoo bars contain 70% surfactant. 

Thanks

[Abdullah]

@Fekher can i ask what anionic preservative and how much do you use in this 9% active? 

[Abdullah]

Fekher said:

@Abdullah I guess that whatever your are limited just  by NaCl amount and for sure for the citric acid should be added keeping the adequate pH. 

SLS powder is the same price as liquid but has >90% active compared to <30. The downside of powder is it has high pH and requires too much citric acid to reduce the pH to 5.

So i just wanted to know if is amount of citric acid that would convert to salt should be counted in 2% salt limit or not because it is not NACL?

[Abdullah]

Syl said:

@Abdullah, I agree with Paprik.
I sell shampoo bars that contain SCI (sodium cocoyl isethionate) ,coco glucoside and SLSA ( sodium lauryl sulfoacetate). The combination is mild and works great for most people.

Many other shampoo bar company target a younger audience that is why they include coco-sulfate or SLS because young people tend to have more sebum and need stronger cleansing. I also include coco-sulfate in my deep cleansing bars.
I would recommend that you test your shampoo on teenagers with long hair. 

I am 28 with oily scalp. Fortunately i have friends with dry scapl too that test my every product.

How much coco glucoside do you add? 

[Abdullah]

Paprik said:

I guess it all depends. For ultra oily hair you would like to have higher surfactant level, for super dry hair, you want something with low surfactant level. In both cases, you need to realize you need a lot of area to clean, each hair individually (if compared with hands or face). Plus good wetting etc. 

So it all depends and it is better to try it out on couple or more ppl. 
Plus, foaming does not mean cleaning. 

Yes In theory the more oily your scalp is, the more surfactant you need. But in my experience, the more oil you remove from oily scalp, the oilier it becomes by accelerating the oil production. Now that person would need to wash the hair everyday. Otherwise it is not tolerable.

I agree “foaming does not mean cleaning”.

[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt thanks for explaining

This dilution ratio for example 4, means 4 parts water one part shampoo or 3 parts water one part shampoo that Totals 4 parts?

[Abdullah]

Syl said:

My personal finding is that young people with long hair who wash their hair 1-2 times per week usually need more surfactant. I had to formulate a deep cleansing formula for those customers. My basic mild formula works well for the average person.

How much surfactant do you use in your mild formula and in deep cleansing?

[Abdullah]

Fekher said:

@Abdullah I make something with 9% active and the result according to me and whom tried the shampoo is good in all sides faoming, viscosity, cleaning, condition …

Thanks for sharing.

That is good to know

[Abdullah]

CedarS said:

I suspect if you feel like there is adequate cleansing, and you have used it for more than one wash, and continue to feel good about it, then it should work. For a better trial, you would want to find more people to try it and give you feedback. 

Yes that is a good practice to give samples to people and get feedback. I usually should check every sample by myself too. 

For shampoo i check each version for 4 washes once in every two days. 

I made 10% active surfactant, worked fine, have used this 8% surfactant twice, no complain yet. 

As they say shampoo has 10-15% surfactant, i asked this question to make sure if 8% or below total surfactant is a common and acceptable range or i am going too low in surfactant percentage. 

[Abdullah]

No 
Add some anionic surfactant and reduce glucoside. 

Coco is better

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

There also better than the odd combination

Yes

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

“would the micelle shape be different between 6% and 12% surfactant“
I don’t know. You would have to do a phase diagram to determine the substructure of the solution.

“Can you explain it a bit more“
All I was trying to point out is that when you put solution B in your hand and mix it with water, it will take some time to dilute completely so that it matches the concentration of A. 

Suppose you took a sample of B, put it in your hand, poured water on it. The water would initially be on top of the sample and none of the concentrations will change except at the very surface of the sample. The middle of the sample will still have the same concentration as when it started. Only as the water migrates through the sample will the concentrations start to match B with A. But if you don’t give it enough time to dilute, the concentration across the sample will be inconsistent. It is this inconsistency that might matter (or maybe not).

Got it

Thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

@Perry thanks 
If we use only one surfactant, would the micelle shape be different between 6% and 12% surfactant concentration?

“because B might never fully hydrate to reach those half concentrations.”
Sorry i didn’t get the idea from this point. Can you explain it a bit more.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

You can use combinations of others based on pH but would need testing 

Yes but as these two are the least expensive, i have to stick with one or both of these two.