[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt which one provides easier lamellar liquid crystal formation? 
50:50 or cetyl alcohol alone? 

[Abdullah]

I would say reduce everything in oil phase and increase fatty alcohol

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis it is 130ml bottle with flip top Cap. 

I thought about gram negative too. 
Thanks 

[Abdullah]

@Gordof yes i have tried it. I did use 1% phenoxyethanol and it was completely solubilized.
As i don’t use any fragrance,  at 1% the smell of phenoxyethanol was a bit annoying so i asked if lower amount can work in this system.

Benzoate and sorbate is anionic and as i have a cationic present they may not be compatible. Aminat g is fungicide too. 

[Abdullah]

Paprik said:

Abdullah said:

@Paprik i did measure these just once and concluded these results.

I weighted 1L shampoo with 10% surfactant and it was about 1kg.
I weighted 100ml lotion with ~10% oil phase and it was about 100g.
I weighted 100ml oil and it was less than 100g.

The important thing you say is “about”. 
When you scale up to hundreds kilos and you need to calculate the amount of product you need to make, this may become a big problem. As you may have not enough product or not enough packaging. 

Specific gravity is there for a reason. 

Agree

[Abdullah]

What is the batch size you make? 

If less than 10kg then a stick blender will work too. 

If more than 100kg then you will need inline homogenizer. 

If you introduced foam, keep the viscosity low and foam will disappear in 10 minutes.

[Abdullah]

I think emulsion has 4 category of components.

1. Those that go to oil phase 
2. Those that  go to water phase 
3. Emulsifier phase that stay in surface between oil and water

4. Fatty alcohol phase. 

You can not replace fatty alcohol with any emulsifier, oil soluble or water soluble ingredient.

[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt anionic: amphoteric at 2:1 do what? I didn’t get this point.

Also how much amine oxide or ratio with CAPB and anionic should we use for best effect? 

[Abdullah]

Stivtoo said:

I heat and hold the oil phase at about 75 C for 1 hour the water phase is brought up to 75C just before mixing. Vessels are water jacketed stainless steel. I’ve used the same vessels every time for good and bad batches. I homogenize from mixing at 75 C for about 30 min. then continue while cooling until about 61C

Why you hold oil for 1 hour? 
I melt it, mix it and that is it.

[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt is there any specific ratio that with how much water should it be diluted in order to deposit in hair?

Because some dilution is happening during lathering too. So why not ddeposit then?

Also, does this chart mean if for example cationic guar is diluted with 2-4 times the amount of water, it deposit the most?

[Abdullah]

@Gordof Can you explain what is tensieds?

Isn’t surfactants in shampoo enough to solubilize 0.3% fragrance? 

[Abdullah]

@Paprik i did measure these just once and concluded these results.

I weighted 1L shampoo with 10% surfactant and it was about 1kg.
I weighted 100ml lotion with ~10% oil phase and it was about 100g.
I weighted 100ml oil and it was less than 100g.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

20 minutes is not necessary with alcohol.  Just spray and allow to evaporate.  You can’t use it for large or closed vessels  and piping or tubing.

You can’t control the vapor pressure and you want the alcohol to evaporate.  Just want enough ventilation.

I got your point. 
Thanks

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis i am spraying again and again everything except the pipes with hypochlorite for 20 minutes.
The problem in that with small sample size was waiting 20 minutes every day for 100-500g sample that would be prepared in 5 minutes was frustrating. 
Also since you said don’t store the 100ppm hypochlorite solution, preparing small amount each time was also a pain.

I will try spraying small equipments for sample with alcohol.

can you explain what is this vapor pressure?
What causes it? 
And how to prevent it?

I will say during sanitization every equipment is open and not closed the way that gas can’t come out of it. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

You must clean before sanitizing
70-75%  - prefer ethanol
before each batching
let it evaporate - acts in seconds
cover small items after sanitizing

it is an explosion hazard so be aware of vapor buildup

Thanks

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis hi 

If i sanitize equipments with isopropyl alcohol or ethanol,

1. What percentage solution should be used?
2. When should i sanitize equipments?
3. How much contact time is needed?

I asked this because sometimes specially for sanitizing small equipments for making samples 20 minutes sanitization is frustrating. So if alcohols need less time i may use that for samples.

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah It happens when you apply the shampoo to hair following by water. By the time you are rinsing, dilution is way too high (but it doesn’t matter, becaue whatever had to deposit already did). 

Thanks for explaining

[Abdullah]

Camel said:

Abdullah said:

Thank you for replying.

Would there be any reason to keep Decyl Glucoside at 1% vs. eliminating it from the formula? Should I replace it with a different surfactant?
Because decyl Glucoside is not a good surfactant. 

Use some SLES.

Also, any reason why you suggest removing the protein? I read from the supplier that it was especially great for hair, but maybe I just fell for the marketing. 
it doesn’t have much benefit in shampoo. 

If it is beneficial, apply it to your hair after shampoo.

I would suggest if you use a premade blend of surfactant. That would work better.

I will look into those preservatives. I appreciate your help. 

Thanks again!

I don’t currently have SLES, although I could try to purchase it. Do you think SCI and Shea Butteramidopropyl Betaine would be good enough?
i did purchase some sci but didn’t work with it. They say it is hard to dissolve.
use CAPB. I have use shea betaine.
I’ll take your advice on removing the protein, PEG and Vitamin E as well. 

As for the preservative, I have a blend of Phenoxyethanol and Ethylhexylglycerin readily available. Is that a safe choice for this product?
yes. Good for shampoo. Although it will reduce the viscosity.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Sorry - I don’t know.  You could run a diffusion study to semquantify pres stability.

Ok 
Thanks anyway

[Abdullah]

I would say use the least expensive salt that doesn’t have anything.

Which country are you in?

[Abdullah]

It is not because of incompatibility. It is because they are are this way. 

If you want transparent product, ask the supplier for a transparent silicone emulsion.

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis can i ask what percentage of surfactant minimum is required to stabilize CMIT MIT?

I make a Shampoo with 8% total surfactant and plan to make a facewash with 5% total surfactant.

Will it be stable? 

[Abdullah]

Thank you for replying.

Would there be any reason to keep Decyl Glucoside at 1% vs. eliminating it from the formula? Should I replace it with a different surfactant?
Because decyl Glucoside is not a good surfactant. 

Use some SLES.

Also, any reason why you suggest removing the protein? I read from the supplier that it was especially great for hair, but maybe I just fell for the marketing. 
it doesn’t have much benefit in shampoo. 

If it is beneficial, apply it to your hair after shampoo.

I would suggest if you use a premade blend of surfactant. That would work better.

I will look into those preservatives. I appreciate your help. 

[Abdullah]

What do you mean by blurry problem? 

If you mean the product is not transparent, that is because of Amodimethicone.

[Abdullah]

I would say remove decyl Glucoside or reduce it to 1% 

Remove PEG, protein and vitamin e 

Add 0.2% EDTA 

Suggest DMDM hydantoin or phenoxyethanol with sodium benzoate as preservative. 

I don’t like benzyl alcohol.