[Abdullah]

Phenoxyethanol+IPBC+EDTA 

[Abdullah]

@Pharma any comments 

[Abdullah]

You can add this extract to water+ preservative. Done

[Abdullah]

What type of ingredient do you want?

Do you want preservative, solvent, antioxidant, anti irritation or another category?

[Abdullah]

You said a lot of things and that makes it confusing. 

Do you want to make solid conditioner? 

If yes then use 25% cationic surfactant+ 75% fatty alcohol. That makes a good solid conditioner. You can add other oil soluble ingredient in place of some fatty alcohol if you want.

[Abdullah]

ngarayeva001 said:

Abdullah said:

ngarayeva001 said:

I occasionally get hormonal acne although retinol (and sometimes prescription tretinoin) is part of my daily routine. In such cases I stop retinol and switch to 20% Azelaic Acid for a couple of days. Works like a charm for me [forum member advisory:anecdotal opinion content].

Tried benzoyl peroxide once and spent a night in an emergency room with severe allergy. To be fair to benzoyl I had no acne next day

What percentage BP did you use?
What was the side effect?
Did you only use in face or larger body part? 

5% which I bought in a pharmacy over the counter.
My face got swollen to the point where I had to use fingers to open my eyes and when my tongue started swelling I rushed to ER. They gave me steroids but it took 5 days for the swelling to go away.
 I didn’t even applied it on whole face. I used it as a spot treatment on 5 spots.

The strangest thing is that my skin is an opposite of sensitive. I can use products with pH of 2 without irritation. I can use tretinoin and glycolic acid the same day you name it. It was the first time I had a reaction on something  that I applied on my face.

Interesting. 

Is it possible that only that specific product or batch had some problem like contamination or something else or you are sure it was BP?

Long time ago i made lotion with anionic and cationic ingredients together and upon applying to face it was causing tightness of chest and difficulty of breathing. Removing ether cationic or anionic material solved the problem.

[Abdullah]

Agreed with @Syl. Cationic surfactant remain in hair after rinsing. Above formula is only emulsifiers that will emulsify hair and scalp oil and remove it when rinsing and make the hair drier. That is my opinion. 

[Abdullah]

Thank you all

[Abdullah]

Is the product a Shampoo or a conditioner?

If shampoo, no one uses BTMS here so why worry about that being sulfate free or not?

If conditioner, what is the need for using sulfate free in your marketing? 
Some companies say sulfate free in shampoo because some customers think sulfate is a bad cleanser. Conditioner is free of any cleanser.

I think those customers will think like this.
Mmm. Sulfate is a Shampoo thing and all conditioners are free of that. Doesn’t this conditioner have anything else to ofer other than being sulfate free which all conditioners are?

[Abdullah]

ngarayeva001 said:

I occasionally get hormonal acne although retinol (and sometimes prescription tretinoin) is part of my daily routine. In such cases I stop retinol and switch to 20% Azelaic Acid for a couple of days. Works like a charm for me [forum member advisory:anecdotal opinion content].

Tried benzoyl peroxide once and spent a night in an emergency room with severe allergy. To be fair to benzoyl I had no acne next day

What percentage BP did you use?
What was the side effect?
Did you only use in face or larger body part? 

[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt thanks

Did you mean i should not use xanthan in a Shampoo that has SLES/CAPB/cationic guar?

Aslo how does EDTA aid in soil pick up? 

[Abdullah]

It is all oils and oils are heavy

[Abdullah]

Higher is better. 
I use 100k Amodimethicone

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Only if you use too much of gums so that you get a gel instead of a viscous liquid (lather is harder to form from surfactants in a gel matrix compared to a solution). On the other hand, cationic modified biopolymers (such as HPTC guar or PQ-10) can actually boost foam and detergency.

Side effect of too much gum it that it suppresses the foam because of viscosity. What about cleaning power?

What i think is surfactants from Shampoo removes soils from hair. If shampoo itself has polymer then that shampoo need to remove that polymer from hair too.
So in shampoo without polymer it only has to remove hair soils. But in shampoo with polymer it has to remove the same hair soil + that polymer as extra soil. So less cleaning efficiency.

I am not sure if this thinking is correct or not. That’s why i asked you experts here.

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

Objective means you measure some characteristic with a device. For example you measure the length of something with a ruler. Everyone who does it should get the same result (theoretically)

Subjective means asking people their opinion about some characteristic. For example instead of using a ruler to measure distance you just ask people how long they believe the length of something is.

when there is a definitive characteristic to measure an objective measurement is better.  But when the characteristic is less defined like whether a treatment works or not, there are only subjective measurements you can take.

Again you haven’t usefully defined “working”. You’ve just used another vaguely defined word. What does “healing” mean in this context? How would you measure “healing”?

Look at it this way. You have two treatments. What experiment would you run to determine if one worked better than the other? What specifically would you measure to show one thing worked better than another?

Thanks for explanation.

1. “Healing” was the best word i knew to use for the result.
What result people want to get by using anti acne product if that is not called healing acne?

2. I don’t know what experiment would i run to determine if one worked better that the other. But who knows what experiment did  FDA run so they did know salicylic acid worked better than for example citric acid or benzoic acid so they said salicylic acid is anti acne active and citric or benzoic acid is not?

If it was like this that they took two products one with salicylic acid and one with citric, and the person who used salicylic acid or the area where salicylic acid was applied had less acne compared to citric acid, then has any company or researcher compared salicylic acid vs BPO the same way?

If they have compared it directly then how? 

[Abdullah]

Dimethicone and Amodimethicone.

[Abdullah]

It will function almost like this. 

Suppose you have 10% anionic surfactant and 2% BTMS in shampoo. 2% anionic surfactant will interact with 2% BTMS and both will not function anymore. only 8% remaining anionic surfactant will clean the hair and there is not cationic BTMS available to condition the hair.

But if you use them separately, 10% anionic surfactant will clean the hair better than 8% as above and 2% BTMS will condition the hair back. 

[Abdullah]

@Perry thanks 
Sorry but can you tell me what subjective and objective means here? As English is not my primary language i couldn’t understand this part properly.

By working better i mean better at healing the current acnes and preventing future breakouts in teenagers.

It would be hard and expensive to me that test these two ingredients against each other but if any other company or research team has tested it, i will accept there research and results. That is what i am doing mostly.

[Abdullah]

esthetician922 said:

You have non inflamed acne and inflamed acne. I would fight non inflamed with salicylic and inflamed with benzoyl. Not all acne is the same. The two ingredients are not in competition with each other but used for specific types of acne. If the person has a combination of both then use both ingredients. 

Isn’t salicylic acid anti inflammation too?

[Abdullah]

Microformulation said:

You can’t say that neither is better. It isn’t an objective and homogenous response from the patient. Patients respond differently.

Asking for an objective rating disregards the realities of Clinical practice.

My question was not about the response or feelings of patients. My point was if in theory or research one works better than another for acne.

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis if we convert it to weigh percentage, is 1M = 9.2% glycerin in water? 

[Abdullah]

Is there any study that compares 2% salicylic acid cleanser vs leave on product?

[Abdullah]

Troycare FE01 is my favorite

[Abdullah]

@Perry  thanks
This chart is about deposition of dimethicone by 3 polymers from Shampoo 
They all have
14% SLES
2% CAPB
0.2% cationic polymer

1% dimethicone

There is a big difference between pq10 and cationic guar. So i asked what amount of silicone deposition should be aim for straight hair and as i am using Amodimethicone i asked about Amodimethicone if it deposit differently than dimethicone.
Any comments on that.

[Abdullah]

emma1985 said:

I’ve found some really accurate pH strips. I’ve tested them against my Apera pH meter many times and they are always accurate. So I use pH strips because there’s no other way to test emulsions other than making a 10% solution which I won’t do because it’s not accurate.

I still use my pH meter for aqueous products though.

O/w emulsion is also like aqua’s product because the continues phase is water. You can check the pH of o/w emulsion the same as pure water. 
If you have w/o that would be hard to check the pH at the end so you should check it before mixing oil and water. 

Making 10% solution is not necessary or accurate.