[Abdullah]

Syl said:

I use a regular Canon printer ink jet $50.00, I buy inexpensive ink from Carrot Ink 1/3 of the price.
I order labels from online labels in sheets, they have a free software to make the labels. They also have water resistant labels. I am very happy with the results.

can you share the name of printer, ink and lablel

[Abdullah]

amitvedakar said:

yes . hdpe is hard material. LDPE is soft. But I think machine compatibility  should be checked.

thanks. the problem is that manufacturers here use HDPE plastic and dont know about LDPE but the the company who makes the mold and is in another country says it is for PE, probably LDPE. i dont know any manufacturue who knows about both types of plastic.

[Abdullah]

amitvedakar said:

HDPE. LDPE is soft & usually used for cap. So bottle made of HDPE is Sturdy made form LDPE is soft like wash bottle in lab.  

thanks

[Abdullah]

chemicalmatt said:

Go with the Polypropylene (PP) material for closures. Those are the most common and also chemically resistant. Always check samples with your primary container neck finish too: just because the spec is 24/410 for both doesn’t mean the fitment will be same especially if there is rough flashing on threads or a neck height slightly off. Valve-seal neck finish is best but trickiest to maintain quality assurance unless you get bottle & cap from same molder.  

thanks 

that is a good idea to get bottle and cap from same molder.

[Abdullah]

Iodopropynyl Butyl Carbamate

[Abdullah]

thanks 
after now i will sanitize once after cleaning and once before next batch production.

sorry i asked them again, this hoper was not from last batch that we made 3 days ago. it was from previos batch that we made 6 days ago product residue left in hopper that was open to air. we have 2 hoppers and in the batch from 3 days ago, they used the saim hoper that was used in production line for fillling line too and they did clean that one.

i dont check the ph of hypoclorite every time but the first time i made 100ppm solution in water and checked the ph it wa 6.5-7. it shoudnt be lower than that now too. 

”Culture a few of those black dots.” how can i culture them?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Not normal - visit the shelves and squeeze some of the major brands.

Think you’re biggest risk in use for shampoos is water ingress in shower and dropped in bath.  Wonder if those caps affect that dynamic.

no there will be no diffrence during use in shower betwen these caps and those that work perfectly fine.

i did check some products from major brands and saw the same problem but as here usually products from major brands are fake, i dont know if the original product is also like this.

when i squeezed a shampoo from Syoss company a little harder, not only air but also some shampoo came out from sides of cap. i ma not sure if this product was original or fake.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Air comes out when you squeeze with that design - it’s a poor closure.

so you mean air shouldnt be able to come out of the bottle when you squeeze the bottle?

they said this is normal for caps that are not air tight and everyone is using it and no one has any complain and i shoud use Air and water-tight caps which are screw caps if i dont want air to come out.
this was a local cap producer and local producers here usually has lower quality products but cheaper. i am already looking to import high quality caps from another country.

what about the products that i have sold with caps that have this problem? 
is ther any risk of microbes getting in or preservative (formalin) escap from bottle or something bad happen to product? not all the caps are like this. this only happens to some of them.

if we squeeze the bottle, fragrance scented air comes out. if we dont squeeze the bottle there is no scent even in warehouse where hundreds of these bottles are stored.( looks like if we dont sqeeze the bottle, air is not comming out easily).

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Forgot to wash (clean) and assume forgot to sanitize and black dots (suggest black fungi).
the product would be reasonably considered adulterated - “If it has been prepared, packed, or held under insanitary conditions whereby it may have become contaminated with filth.”

suggest you scrap the product and focus on a production system not in control.

i wash equipments before production and sanitize them. after production another workers washes the equipments. we dont sanitize equipments after production.(shoud we sanitize equipments afer production too?)

 befor production, tank and all equipments was sanitized with 100ppm hypochlorit solution for 30 minutes. that hoper was from filling machine and it was sanitized with 70% ethanol before use. after production someone toke that hoper outside and they forgot to wash it or clean it. they saw it after 3 days and told me and i asked here.

there is no visible sighn of anything bad with product that has been packaged.

do you think raw materials were contaminated with fungi or equipments werent clean enough befor production even after being washed, sanitized with hypoclorit and ethanol and rinsed with production water( filter water)?

does it look like aspergillus brasiliensis or some other fungi?

what did you mean by this one.” and focus on a production system not in control.”? i didnt get the idea from this.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Don’t recall tottle caps I’ve used have carried those distinctions.  Filled and inverted, it may not make much difference.

Pressure differentials can play a trick.  Product made and packaged in midwest US, sold in high altitude markets can squirt a little product at 1st customer opening.

i have used these two flip top type caps. the red one works fine but the green one, if we squeaze the bottle, from some of them air comes out. that air also has the smell of fragrance i use in that shampoo. as my preservative is formalin that has gas it made me wory. 
when i asked the suplier about it they siad that these caps are water-tight and not air-tight. is this normall for shampoo or lotion bottles that if we squeez the bottle, air come out from it?

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah DMAPA and LAPDMA for instance…you could ask your supplier for technical info about it.

thanks

[Abdullah]

MarkBroussard said:

@Abdullah

What they are calling Polyethylene is almost certainly LDPE (Low Density Polyethylene) which is used in packaging.  HDPE is generally used for rigid structure items such as cutting boards.  It sounds as though this supplier may not know the difference between LDPE and HDPE.

that may be the case.
thanks

[Abdullah]

amitvedakar said:

PE in HDPE stands for polyethylene.  HDPE bottle is not transparent. PET, HDPE, LDPE are different grades of PE. as I know.

i also thiks so. but as they said this is polyethylene, i thought maybe they are calling HDPE as polyethylene.

[Abdullah]

 

they also make these jars from that plastic they call Polyethylene.

[Abdullah]

they said we have two types plastic. Polyethylene and PET. 
this one is PET. So the bottles above would be something other than PET.

[Abdullah]

they say these are polyethylene bottles. are these HDPE?

[Abdullah]

evchem2 said:

HDPE is high density polyethylene, it is polyethylene but has different properties than lower density

https://sciencing.com/differences-hdpe-plastic-polyethylene-plastic-6807965.html
https://omicoplastics.com/blog/ldpe-hdpe-similarities-and-differences/

thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Just check closely the purity of your CAPB. CAPB has been found to be allergenic in some studies, mostly because of some organic impurities.

what impurities should i look for?

i am using it at 3% which is 0.9% active surfactant. currently my concern is that it is preserved with CMI MI.

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

Looks like for a leave on product it has been deemed safe up to 6%

got it 
thanks

[Abdullah]

Why are sodium gluconate and xanthan gum highest in your formulas. 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

Abdullah said:

@ketchito in the ulprospector Link, what is your opinion about these two

Other factors that effect deposition

1. Coacervate rheology
is it the actual product viscosity or product viscosity during shampooing when coacervate is formed? 

2. Electrolytes reduce the amount of coacervate.
doesnt it mean reduced deposition? 

1) that’s a good question; I believe it’s products viscosity, since, if the product is too viscous, it’d be hard to dilute it so coacervate is formed before you rinsed-off the product

So higher product viscosity is better to form coacervate, correct? 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Be aware - don’t see it listed in Annex V - Cosmetic Directive
https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/cosing/pdf/COSING_Annex%20V_v2.pdf

Thanks 

[Abdullah]

Pharma said:

Both wouldn’t be allowed in the EU and both don’t look ‘mild’ to me. Ah well, the world is overpopulated anyway…

I will not sell it in Europe and all these ingredients are allowed here.

Is it because of formalin or something else in the formula that you think it is not mild? 

My another preservative option is CMI MI but i think formalin is milder than CMI MI. 

[Abdullah]

No it would not be possible

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

If the consumers can’t feel the difference then why does the answer matter? Just make a product that consumers like.

The truth is that you’re asking a question that doesn’t have a simple answer. The characteristic of “conditioning” is a subjective one. So whether something is more conditioning or less depends on what you are measuring. 

Your measure is based on asking people. So there is no way you can theoretically guess what they will think.

We are a group of 5 people who test my every product to see how it feels in every aspect. I am sure that when we 5 people can’t tell the difference doesn’t mean no one or majority of people can’t.

As I don’t have another method to measure differences, knowing what difference in theory would a change in product ingredients bring will help a lot.