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Where to find Dermofeel PA (should I make my own?)
(I’ve searched this forum for an already typed out answer to this before posting, but could not find anything)
I am just beginning my formulation path, and this forum has helped me a lot in just searching for answers to questions I’ve had thus far. I’m utilizing the free IPCS masterclass as I get used to formulating and understanding the importance of each ingredient. One ingredient needed for their organic shampoo formula is Dermofeel PA (phytic acid, aqua), I understand that this is a chelating agent, and after trying to find somewhere to buy it online I am also now under the impression that it has been very hard to come by for awhile (according to google searches and forums). I am US-based, but am open to ordering out of country as well if needed. Any leads on where I can buy Dermofeel PA? And if not - can I make my own? I know it’s simply phytic acid and demineralized water, but I don’t know what % of each it would be.
Or if anyone has a Dermofeel PA substitute that could be used in a “certified organic” shampoo, I would much appreciate the information. I have seen some subs on google searches, but I don’t want to choose something ineffective and that I don’t know much about.
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9 Replies
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sodium phytate is easier to find, does the same job, and dissolves more easily
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Thank you! It looks like I can just add sodium phytate still in powder form to my water phase. I see suggested usage rate is 0.05-0.5%. I don’t know how strong Dermafeel PA is as it’s phytic acid and water, and this formula has 0.2% Dermofeel PA. Would I attempt the formula with a replacement of 0.2% sodium phytate or go lower because it’s not mixed with water?
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0.1% is enough, more often than not
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Hi! When I did the calculations of the aqueous solution percentage in the formula, it roughly came out to 0.10% (0.10 grams) of the solid. I’ve been using the solid at 0.20%. Is that too much? Any help is appreciated! ????
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You can purchase Phytic Acid from Biosil Technologies in the US. Are you using it as both a chelating agent and pH adjuster? Phytic Acid and Sodium Phytate have different effects as it regards pH adjustment. Phytic Acid will lower pH, Sodium Phytate will raise pH.
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Some where someone said that the phytic acid she purchased was already contaminated. So sodium phytate is better option, costs less in transportation because it is 100% active and do the same thing.
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Somewhat relatedly…
Does anyone know of data showing how effective sodium phytate is compared with synthetic chelating agents? I know it’s “common knowledge” that it’s not as effective, but I was just curious if that had actually been proven and if it was concentration-dependent (e.g., could 0.2% sodium phytate be as effective as 0.1% tetrasodium EDTA?).
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One place to start….is pH of final product. A lot of the ones that get dragged into conversations with beginners…are more oriented towards higher pH, and laundry detergent ranges.
However, Sodium Phytate and Phytic acid….will work down in the cosmetic range. They are interchangeible….just depending on if your finished product need pH up or pH down….each does the opposite. They are however…about the worst possible choice…should you be using something cationic… like a BTMS type emulsifier. They have four X the amount of (wrong) charges of say edta or my favorite… GLDA.
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So if I’m creating a toner, no need for an emulsifier (solubilizer at best if I add essential/fragrance oils)…it would be okay to use the sodium phytate in solid form, correct? And I could add it to the heated water phase if I’m dissolving the Geogard Ultra prior to combining all other ingredients, no? Please advise. Thanks!
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