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Welcome to the forum
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Hello new students!
I’m looking forward to hearing your questions and comments about formulating with natural ingredients.Feel free to post any questions that occur to you as you go through the course. -
Dear Perry,
For the last 6 months, I have been working on formulating natural shampoos and conditioners that contain no sulfate and petroleum. I have learned that almost all shampoos and conditioners sold at Whole Foods Market contain some kind of petroleum based ingredients such as Behentrimonium Chloride, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, etc. Would you consider these types of products as Tier 3, 4, or not even in the natural category at all?
I want to get your opinion on Sodium Methyl Cocoyl Taurate and Rice Quat. Would they be qualified to be used in the Tier 3 Natural products? Are there any concerns about these two ingredients in the natural market?Vida
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Hello Vida - These would probably be Tier 3 but depending on the formula Tier 4.
However, Behentrimonium Chloride and Stearamdioprpoyl Dimethylamine do not necessarily have to be petroleum based ingredients. They can be made from plant starting materials.The Cocoyl Taurate and Rice Quat would really depend on the standard that you are following. They would not qualify under COSMOS standards but I think they would under the NSF standards.I’m not familiar with any concerns about the ingredients. Only that they can not be produced “naturally” so some certification groups don’t consider them natural. -
Hello Perry,
I spoke to Thor Company and a few others, they all indicated that the starting material for Behentrimonium Chloride is petroleum. Do you know of any suppliers that might have the plant-based version?Thank you,
Vida
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Behentrimonium methosulfate can be derived from rapeseed and canola oil.
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Hello Vida - This would probably work better as a new discussion so you can get input from more chemists. Just click the “New Discussion” button at the top right and start a new discussion.
I don’t know which supplier is producing the plant derived versions of those ingredients off the top of my mind. -
This really belongs in another thread, but briefly - Thor is not known for using natural feedstock. Try Croda. Also, using natural feedstock costs more, so the only reason to use it is to gain a marketing advantage, which means that anyone making a raw material made from natural ingredients will be shouting that fact from the rooftops - you shouldn’t have to call anyone.
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Greetings. I’ve been in the industry ten years.
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Hi, my name is Nono, working as a Scientist in HK. My background is in Applied Chemistry, where I did my PhD. I am embarking to have my own skin care product line in the future. Thus, I would love to learn more and do more research.
This forum will be helpful in building up my own line someday.Thank you so much Perry.Nono -
Hi all. My formal education is not in chemistry or cosmetics, but I have been constantly educating myself for about eight years now from internet resources and trial and error. Formulating is fascinating! I look forward to learning more from this great forum. Thanks so much!
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Hi, I’m Nanette and I’m new to cosmetic formulating. I’ve been spending quite a bit of time reading through everyone’s posts, learning a lot, and envying many of your science backgrounds. I’ll admit to a certain amount of trepidation introducing myself to such a learned group but it seemed that I should even if I can not offer advice.
My education and background are not in science. I’ve taught myself, through gracious folks like yourselves, the bare basics of formulating and some basic Chemistry 101. I’m doing well with about a half dozen self emulsifiers but haven’t attempted strictly using the HLB system. I’m still trying to keep anionic, cationic, non-ionic ingredients, best preservatives per formula, etc, all straight in my head (and rapidly expanding notebook). I have advanced from the lotion course I took at a local arts center, Spruill in Atlanta, GA, in which the instructor advocated beeswax and borax. When my attempts to replicate those formulas failed I immersed myself in learning why that was. Careful what you ask for! I am completely hooked. Also, a bit surprised about how much I look forward to the time I can carve out of the day to dedicate to learning more or making a new formula.
Perry, I hope to take one of your online courses in the very near future. Thanks to everyone for sharing your expertise.
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Hello,
I am new to the Natural Formulating Course. I have no science background (actually psychology lol), although I have been working as a lab tech for a natural skincare company in Seattle for the past year and a half.
I am excited to learn more and have all your great advice available.
Cheers,
Chelsesa
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Hello all,
Took me a while but eventually I clued in to forum etiquette. So here goes my introduction:I am nowhere near a chemist. I live in Northern Yukon and have a glacially fed river that runs past our property; yes we have flood insurance. The silt this river carries forms the most sensory rich mud imaginable which sparked an interest in turning it into skin care which led to difficulty stabilizing emulsions which led to some troubled musing and eventually to Perry and the rest of you.What a wonderful resource. It’s been so much fun grasping at all this information that is floating around just beyond my understanding. I foresee a class or two with Perry in my near future and a string of hopefully not too juvenile comments on this forum.Cheers,Elise -
Good day/night everyone,
I’m very glad I’ve found this place with people from around the world sharing the same interest (at least one of them). More so, a place where professionals and novices can interact in a very constructive manner.
My name is Andreas and you may communicate in German, English, or French with me. Originally from Switzerland, my current home is France but tomorrow might be an entirely different place… though happily married, we haven’t really settled down yet.
I’m a pharmacist by training and worked part time in a pharmacy to finance my PhD in pharmacognosy and phytochemistry about anti-inflammatory activities of ginger. I added a PostDoc in the same fields but on chemopreventive activities of plants and am now searching for a job other than academic research. I’d like to do things with plants, create something new, something which people can actually hold in their hands (or put on their heads
), and the cosmetics industry seems to be the right place for that.
Besides, I love making all kinds of herbal, pharmaceutical, cosmeceutical, and ‘functionalised’ cosmetic preparations not only for people but also for pets and even plants but I do so only as an on-and-off hobby. I know I should do something more with it but I guess I lack the needed marketing skills… or the guts to become independent.I appreciated studying pharmacy very much because it came with a very broad set of scientific fields where I focused (and still do) mainly on medicinal plants and galenics, but also life sciences, organic chemistry, biology (human and plant physiology, veterinary medicine), and at home ‘kitchen chemistry’ and all sorts of formulations. My latest addition to things I’m interested in are NADES. Besides that, we have four little dogs to cuddle and a garden where only girasole, mildew, and snails thrive…
As a pharmacist it seems I’m getting pre-categorised by the industries, too bad for me it’s not in the areas of my interests. True, I am a bit a Jack of all trades although with profoundness (haha, tell that Santa Claus) and I try to learn something new every day which might explain why I had so far no luck getting a job where I really wanted. BTW what the heck is pharmacognosy anyway and you really have a Dr. title on a spice?
Friends and family tell me I should use all this knowledge to create something on my own, that there are a lot of people knowing less but selling ‘something’. Or I should do consulting as I like helping people finding personalised solutions; I’m actually pretty good at explaining difficult stuff in a practical way but I guess I’m terrible with marketing myself. Anyway, now I try here and there to find folks interested in scientific background for the things they do, trade creative ideas, solve problems others couldn’t (love that!), translate scientific literature in an actually understandable language, and do stuff they simply have no time or interest for. For example in the field of natural and herbal cosmetics here on CC…
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@Pharma - Nice to meet you… I’m a layman, so this may be obvious to everyone else but what are NADES?
(layman… layperson… somehow laywoman sounds like it involves activities of an indecent nature) -
Laywoman, I have to remember that one
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NADES stands for natural deep eutectic solvents. It means that you take two or more solid compounds and when mixed at the right proportions, they become liquid. Honey and nectar are examples though most others contain choline as one of the parts whereas the other may be urea, sugars, amino acids, and many more. These ‘liquids’ are often very viscous (again, think honey), don’t evaporate (don’t dry out), are natural, show unique solvation properties, and they’re quite often even beneficial (e.g. vitamins or moisturisers). Oh, and they work without water but are miscible with it and new patents also in the cosmetics industry start popping up like mushrooms. For example for water-free deodorants. No water = a lot more stability and other benefits.
They are soo cool (and I’m such a nerd)! -
@Pharma, NADES sound really cool to me, too - and we are all nerds here, so welcome.
If you are on LinkedIn, please connect with me - there are groups you need to join. If you need me to send you my email address, please send me a message on this forum.In fact, please consider this an open invitation for anyone on this forum to connect with me via LinkedIn. -
Hi, i’m octavio in Brooklyn. i’ve been making my own skin care products for years and i decided to get serious about it and try to get something to the public and that’s when i realized how little i knew. There’s a big difference between DIY that works on your skin and a market product that will work in a range of skin types, have a good shelf life, etc. The good thing is that the more i learn about chemistry, biology, and the like, the more i’m interested in the subject and continuing on my goal of making skin care products for men. I’m experimenting a lot and i’m here to learn.
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Hi im nyree I’m a professional makeup artist starting a line of cosmetics. .I would like to know would anyone know any packaging manufacturer that custom make lipstick cases thank you. You can email me at nyree27@gmail.com
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@nyree, please post your question in a new, seperate discussion. This discussion is only for introducing yourself.
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Ok sorry
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Hi, I’m Amanda from Australia (originally UK) and I’ve been a consultant chemist for over seven years (www.realizebeauty.com) and in the industry for 18 (which makes me feel old). I fund quite a bit of research through my consultancy and am interested in sharing and discussing some of that on here as well as meeting other chemists both online and in-person (I travel and am keen to collaborate on some projects. I also have a UK office). I’m a long-time Perry fan and know there are other great people in this group so hello
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Hello All,
I am a cosmetic chemist from Canada who has over 10 years of experience formulating skin care, hair care, I recently started my own consulting firm and am looking for new clients to assist. I have worked in the R&D departments of large and mid-size manufacturers and have relationships with many others.This website has been a great resource for me and I hope to help others as they have helped me.Prasad Consumer Consulting -
Hi I am Chirag, having a detergent manufacturing Unit, i am planning to stablish my own liquid detergent, handwash Unit and in my pursuit the Chemistscorner has prooved to be very bemeficial as i learn a lot from you guys. Please share details of the above mentioned products. Thnk you so much.
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Hii everyone,
My name is Ankit and I work as a fomulation developer in cosmetics. I am very new to this arena and this forum has helped me a great deal in getting along with it. Looking forward to share my experiences as well as learning from all of you. Thank you
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