Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating General wax flaking

  • wax flaking

    Posted by Fekher on January 31, 2019 at 7:56 am

    hi friends , i made hair pomade wich have nice texture and fixation the problem just when the product dry it makes littel flake so i want to improve the product with eliminating this flaking what do you recommend for that formulation and can be a problem of the quality of ceteareth 25 not formulation problem?
     water : QSP
    Ceteareth 25 : 27 %
    pvp : 4 %
    perfume : 0,5 %
    presrvative : 0,1 %
    @Chemist77  @Perry  @Gunther  @Dirtnap1

    Fekher replied 2 weeks, 6 days ago 6 Members · 23 Replies
  • 23 Replies
  • Dirtnap1

    Member
    January 31, 2019 at 4:56 pm

    Most likely due to the higher amount of PVP. Is that the only thickener/fixative you have on hand?

  • Fekher

    Member
    January 31, 2019 at 8:07 pm

    @Dirtnap1 i don’t think that from pvp cause for same level in hair gel there is no flake then for sure it is from ceteareth 25  .

  • Dirtnap1

    Member
    January 31, 2019 at 10:05 pm

    I don’t believe I have had any flaking from Cet-25 with my formulas. However, when I added above 1% PVP it would tend to flake a bit if hair was combed/disturbed etc. 

    Only way to test would be try Cet-20 or 30 and compare using exact formula.

  • Chemist77

    Member
    February 1, 2019 at 5:07 am

    How about doing a trial without PVP, it will be easily established if it is PVP or the ethoxylate. My bet is still on PVP, but as @Dirtnap1 suggested you can try another trial with 20 mole ethoxylate. Will give your a fair idea.

  • Fekher

    Member
    February 1, 2019 at 8:05 am

    @Chemist77 @Dirtnap1 thanks a lot for your help i already make same formulation without pvp i will try it in my hair and tell you the resultats.

  • Fekher

    Member
    February 1, 2019 at 8:40 am

    Update
    @Chemist77 @Dirtnap1 (just i insist that flake in my product is invisible you can see it only if you remove hair after product drying) , so using product without pvp gives as normal a lower fixation and lower flake but flaking problem by removing hair after product drying is not solved at all … so it is clear that is not only pvp cause flake in my case .   I’am thinking about input that improve flaking effect not by eliminating it but by making it invisible (transparent)
    may be silicone can do it ??

  • Fekher

    Member
    February 1, 2019 at 9:03 am

    @chemicalmatt @Perry @Gunther have an advice ?

  • Chemist77

    Member
    February 1, 2019 at 10:41 am

    In this case try adding little silicone like Dimethicone 200

  • OldPerry

    Member
    February 1, 2019 at 5:35 pm

    I think 4% PVP is too much.  Try half that amount.

  • Fekher

    Member
    February 1, 2019 at 5:52 pm

    @Perry in update i make it without pvp however flake persist.
    @Chemist77 i will try it when i find Dimethicone and tell you about resultats , i will use silicone at 2 % level.

  • OldPerry

    Member
    February 1, 2019 at 5:58 pm

    Then you have too much Ceteareth. Use less and find another thickening agent like Carbomer.

  • Fekher

    Member
    February 1, 2019 at 6:03 pm

    @Perry in hair wax you can not have good viscosity at level lower then 25% ceteareth 25 i already try it from 15 % to 30 % so 25 % is the minimum level to have acceptable fixation and viscosity.

  • Dirtnap1

    Member
    February 4, 2019 at 4:43 pm

    Try adding very minimal amounts of glycerin, C12-15, and add some Peg-40HCO and dimethicone, should help with flaking.

  • Fekher

    Member
    February 4, 2019 at 9:48 pm

    soo helpfull @Dirtnap1 thanks

  • Soexcited

    Member
    February 5, 2019 at 12:11 am

    I’m trying to understand. You only get the flakes when you try to restyled it after it dries?

  • Fekher

    Member
    February 5, 2019 at 11:21 am

    @Soexcited exactly .
    @Dirtnap1 from searching i find that level of use (C12-15) is large between 1 % and 15 % so have you idea about best adequat level for hair wax styling ?

  • Dirtnap1

    Member
    February 5, 2019 at 7:11 pm

    It’s going to depend on your formula and the characteristics you are looking for. Obviously you do not want to go into the high end as it will negatively affect hold. So I would start with .2-.5% up to 1%

    • Fekher

      Member
      May 4, 2024 at 12:15 pm

      For my formulation even at 0.15% c12-15 decrease the transparency of hair wax.

  • Fekher

    Member
    February 6, 2019 at 10:27 am

    thanks @Dirtnap1 i will try it from 1% to more and see what it will give.

  • Fekher

    Member
    July 24, 2022 at 5:29 pm

    Have a long time from talking about that and really thanks a lot @Dirtnap1 @Chemist77 @Perry @Soexcited for your precious comments, so nearl I heard from professional chemist that panthenol have good effect for reducing flaking effect any one have an idea about that? @Abdullah 

    • MariaSibon

      Member
      May 15, 2023 at 7:15 am

      Hello,

      I presumed so far you have solved the problem…Any updates?

      My small experience says that you need some lipids in you formula to act as plasticisers that is why most of basic formulation for aqua waxes based on high concentrations of ceteraeth-25/30 uses ingredienst such as PEG-40 Hydrogented castor oil, polysorbate 20, peg-7 glyceryl cocoate or some emollients which help with smooth physical transitions during processing but also I presume it will help with flaking.

      • Fekher

        Member
        July 7, 2023 at 4:35 pm

        The problem did not solved and I guess it will not for water based wax.

      • Fekher

        Member
        May 4, 2024 at 12:20 pm

        Thanks a lot for your precious informations.

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