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Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Unorthodox waterbased pomade!

  • Fekher

    Professional Chemist / Formulator
    September 20, 2019 at 10:42 am

    @bgeorge about calculating hlb for 8 % ( 5%PEG 40 and 3 % Lecithin)  , hlb = (hlb (peg40) × 5 + hlb (lecithin)×3 )  /  ( 5+3)
    AN : hlb = (15×5+ 3×7)/ 8 = 12.
    About level use of emulsifers may 1/3  (oils phase without clay)  will be good.

  • LincsChemist

    September 20, 2019 at 11:02 am

    Bentonite can be a bit of a nightmare to work with, it really need to be added to the heated water phase and homogenised to hell to properly hydrate. I’d probably scrap out the bentonite and add more kaolin (8-10%) if you’re just after the mattifying effect. Adding some cetearyl alcohol (~3%) will also help stabilise your emulsion - I’d take this off the soya wax. 

  • bgeorge

    September 20, 2019 at 8:08 pm

    @LincsChemist thank you for your suggestion, I will scrap the bentonite and up the amount of Kaolin, this clay seems a lot easier to work with anyway! 

    @Fekher is a HLB of 12 good? 

  • Fekher

    Professional Chemist / Formulator
    September 21, 2019 at 12:54 pm

    @bgeorge make calculation for required hlb and see if 12 is good.

  • Pharma

    September 21, 2019 at 5:39 pm
    12 is absolutely okay for an o/w emulsion. Calculating may predict how chances are that the emulsion will be stable over time.
    As @LincsChemist said: Switching out some wax with fatty alcohols will not only result in a nicer feel but also broadens HLB requirement or in other words increases the tolerance to not so perfect HLB matching.
  • bgeorge

    September 27, 2019 at 8:02 pm

    Thanks for all of your input guys! I’m really trying to keep this product as natural as I possible can. 

    So I have been happy with the performance of this particular formula of my products. The only thing that I am find is that I am getting a lot of what I would describe wax and water separation when putting it through my fingers, eventually it does come back together and when put in the hair is perfect! 
    I just want to fix the separation of the product, if I was the consumer this would turn me off! 
    So I reformulated as I mentioned previously as I felt the product perhaps hadn’t emulsified properly. I removed the bentonite clay and made up for it with kaolin clay and have added that to my water phase now, making sure I have hydrated the clay before adding to the oil phase. I have also swapped my preservative to Optiphen Plus.
    This was a disaster the consistency again was like when I added the borax! A very creamy consistency like a moisturiser! 
    Where do I go from here? I want to bump the soy wax back up again and take the PEG40 down to match the lecithin.
  • Pharma

    September 28, 2019 at 7:00 am

    bgeorge said:

    …I removed the bentonite clay and made up for it with kaolin clay…
    …This was a disaster the consistency again was like when I added the borax!…

    Well, that’s obvious! Bentonite is highly thixotropic and gives way higher viscosity than kaolin. You can’t swap these two 1:1 since they aren’t identical products ;) . You would have to add a water thickener/gelling agent.
    Do you still have the separation issue when rubbing it between your fingers? I suppose it comes from your oil phase being solid or a suspension of solid wax microcrystals in oil.
  • bgeorge

    September 29, 2019 at 2:45 am

    @Pharma because the formula went creamy like moisturiser there was no separation like the original formula, which was great! So I need to get the perfect mix of the two formulas! Then I will be happy. 

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