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surfactant thickener help
I want to thick my shampoo/facewash with pH range of 5.5 to 7.Base SLES(27%) shampoo- 40%, FW-35%CDEA 3% , Betaine 5% & Polyq. 7- 1%.Herbal Ext. mixture (shampoo)-2%Result req. Paste like facewash/Shampoo.I use 0.5% GHTC.I am confused with three ingredients.HEC or Crothix or Ultraz 20 type polymer.All materials comes in 20/25 kg packing.so which is most suitable?Does it make any performance issue.Can anybody Help?Thank You. -
18 Replies
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With SLES, Betaine, and CDEA you don’t need a thickener. Just adjust the viscosity with salt. Do a salt curve analysis.
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Perry said:With SLES, Betaine, and CDEA you don’t need a thickener. Just adjust the viscosity with salt. Do a salt curve analysis.yes sir,Thank You.One more question: Does salt make skin or hair Dry? -
Well,can adding CDEA separately in surfactant make any difference in thickness?We add all surfactant all to gather & mix.
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Amit what is FW; also when you use the cationic guar an acid neutralisation is required. Have you done it all?
Adding all the surfactants won’t be advisable as SLES needs to be dispersed/dissolved completely in the batch before you add other surfactants. As Perry mentioned, in such a formula salt can easily be the thickener. -
@Chemist77 FW- Facewash.It means i have to mix all other materials (preservatives, GHTC, Herbal Ext. etc )in SLES first & then should add CDEA, Betaine, POly Q 7.
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No, GHTC first. Neutralize with citric acid to pH 4 and then SLES. Add the remaining surfactants and everything else once the surfactant mix is clear.
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@Chemist77 Thank you very much
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No, salt does not make hair dry.
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What’s the viscosity you are looking for and what’s the viscosity you are getting? What’s the pH of you shampoo?
NaCl is cheap and easy to be added during manufacturing. -
My Shampoo pH 6.I tried Nacl and result is OK.In shampoo i am going to cut down percentage of my herbal Extract to 1%.I think that is problematic.well when I make nozzle side down shampoo runing out of the nozzle.Nacl made some difference.Can Nacl be added upto 1%?
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Yes you can add NaCl up to 2% (I don’t think that there is any limit for NaCl), but you won’t need that much. 1% should be OK.
Don’t forget to make sure NaCl is well dissolved in your shampoo before checking the viscosity. -
There is a limit. Your salt curve will go down and you lose all viscosity. You need to do the analysis and find the peak
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ngarayeva001 said:There is a limit. Your salt curve will go down and you lose all viscosity. You need to do the analysis and find the peak
Yes, but no one stops you to add 3% of salt even if the viscosity is the same as 0.5% NaCl :smiley:
Jokes aside, yes, you are right regarding the salt curve, but I don’t think amitvedakar has the equipment to measure the viscosity. -
@em88 - You don’t necessarily have to measure the viscosity exactly. You can get a relative measure of the viscosity using a salt curve analysis. It might be a bit harder to see small differences but you could certainly tell the difference between watery liquids, slightly thickened liquids, and really thick liquids.
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@Perry, you can’t make any precise decision just by looking the samples.
I just remembered a similar situation at the university, It is very simple to have a fairly good precision if you do an experiment based on Hoppler viscometer.
I’d suggest to amitvedakar to read about the Hoppler viscometer and how to simulate it.
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amitvedakar said:Perry said:With SLES, Betaine, and CDEA you don’t need a thickener. Just adjust the viscosity with salt. Do a salt curve analysis.yes sir,Thank You.One more question: Does salt make skin or hair Dry?
By using CAPB and CDEA you’ll need so little salt to thicken it, often less than 1%, that you won’t notice any difference.
Is the betaine you have actually CAPB (cocamidoproyl betaine)?
Is that 5% as supplied, or 5% on an active basis?
If it’s the former, then it’s 1.5% active CAPB, that’s a bit short. You may increase it to 10% (3% active CAPB) for further mildness and thickening. -
I made this simple hand soap last weekend:
INCI % Aqua 37.6% Disodium EDTA 0.1% Glycerin 2.0% SLES 40.0% Cocamide DEA 3.0% CAPB 15.0% Germaben II 0.8% PEG-7 Glyceryl
cocoate1.5% Citric
Acidqs It is so thick without any salt that my problem was how to unthicken it. And I haven’t even added any salt. Combination of SLES and CAPB is thick by itself. CDEA makes it even thicker. So maybe you just need to play with %
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Well thank you all for taking interest & Suggestions.@em88em88 said:I’d suggest to amitvedakar to read about the Hoppler viscometer and how to simulate it.
At present we don’t have, try for that.
Well by adding Nacl i found some difference in thickness.It’s CAPB SB- Cocoamodopropyl betaine having active 30%I increase CAPB 7-8% & try.Salt should be added by dissolving or sprinkle directly & mix.what is advisable?Thank you All.
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