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Study says adding CAPB beforehand, makes Cetrimonium chloride compatibe with SLES
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Thanks @DAS I will try with lower C-DEA
but likely it’s mostly an anionic-cationic compatibility problem.As for Erythritol,
while it may make shapoo a bit more sticky (although not as much as glycerin for the same weight) it conditions hair a bit, and more importantly it seems to temporarily thicken thin hair.While claim substantiation studies must be taken with a grain of salt,
you can read about erythritol at jungbunzlauer website
https://www.jungbunzlauer.com/fileadmin/content/_PDF/PRINT_PROJECTS/Article_facts/JBL_AR_ERYLITE_Erythritol-adding_functionality_to_hair_shampoo_2016-009.pdfSome John Frieda shampoos have it:
https://www.johnfrieda.com/en-FI/products/frizz-ease/forever-smooth-shampoo/
https://www.johnfrieda.com/en-FI/products/frizz-ease/miraculous-recovery-shampoo/
https://search.johnfrieda.com/en-FI/search.x?q=erythritol&ie=utf8&d=all
I personally like JFrieda products. They work fine, not too expensive. And they don’t make wild claims about puff-ingredients, or XYZ-free scaremongering.
Simple and straightforward formulas you can attempt to replicate. Most still use SLS/SLES. -
Update:Got a stable formulation:60% deionized water0.1% EDTA Na-40.5% Sodium Benzoate7% Texapon N70 (4.9 active SLES)2.1% SLS powder5% Erythritol7% Dehyton K (2.33% active CAPB)At this point CAPB thickens it a bit.2% Polyquaternium-7It becomes thicker, allow to settle overnight, it thins out a bit.0.5% Cetiol HEIDK if this is actually making any difference2% Dehyquart A, CETACRight after stirring it becomes whitish, thicker, and a bit slimy.It thins, clears and smooths out by leaving it undisturbed overnight.It leaves a totally usable, mostly clear product.It ain’t as conditioning as my previous formula. I wonder if lowering PQ-7 from 5 to 2% had such a noticeable effect.
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And what is it like for eye irritation?
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Not bad.
Interestingly enough, the previous formula with 5% PQ-7 was less eye irritating.
But maybe just because it had very low sulfate content,
I may try that formula again, with some other non-thickening surfactant to add some extra foam. -
Now I tried the following formula, but somehow it didn’t feel as conditioning as the one wihout glucosides but with PEG-7 Glyceryl cocoate.
50% deionized water
0.1% EDTA Na-4
0.4% Sodium Benzoate
5% Erythritol
1.5% SLS powder
5% Texapon N70 gel (3.5% active SLES) ( 5% total active sulfate surfactants )
(allow time for it to dissolve)
10% Bcare2000 (about 5% active Decyl Glucoside)
10% Dehyton K ( 3% active CAPB )
( at this point, mixture is crystal clear, almost water-thin )
5% Polyquaternium-7
( allow to rest for 2 hours )
(it remains crystal clear, slightly thicker )
2% Dehyquart A ( Cetrimonium Chloride )
( some cloudiness upon addition that later clears out, some viscosity builds, lots of tiny bubbles form despite gentle stirring )I’d try upping Dehyquart to 5% to see if it’s any more conditioning.
I’ll also try cationics (PQ-7, CETAC) / CAPB / glucoside / anionics (sulfates) addition order as @chemicalmatt advised here
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/comment/27942/#Comment_27942 -
Update:
I tried a pretty similar formulation just switching the addition order as @chemicalmatt suggested in other posts.
60% deionized water
( this time no EDTA, no preservatives, just to see if they somehow interfere )
5% Polyquaternium-7
4% Dehyquart-A ( about 1% active Cetrimonium Chloride )
10% Dehyton-K ( 3% active CAPB )
Allowed to rest undisturbed for 45 minutes. Solution remains water-thin and crystal-clear.
10% BCare2000 ( about 5% active Decyl glucoside )
Allowed to rest for about 15 minutes.
0.5% SLS powder
6.43% Texapon N70 gel ( 4.5% active SLES )
( 5% total sulfates )
Left undisturbed overnight for Texapon to dissolve.The next day, this formulation has a slightly viscous, crystal clear appearance.
Contrasting to the water-thin, slightly cloudy one mentioned above.
On adding citric acid (powder) little tiny bubbles were formed.This one was much more conditioning than the previous one, just by switching the addition order.
Too bad I can’t seem to find Polyquaternium-10 locally.Now I’ll try to add silicones
1 I’ll try adding some Amodimethicone+Cetrimonium+Trideceth blend, plus some extra CETAC to reach 1-2%.
2 I’ll see if BTMS-50 + dimethicone can hold in solution, with this new addition order. -
@Gunther. where you based?
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In Central America (Latin America), so I get the same (or worse) sourcing problems that @Belassi has.
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