Some questions about (LGN) lamellar gel network

Tagged: cetyl alcohol, emulsion, gms, lamellar-gel-network, lgn

Formulating

Some questions about (LGN) lamellar gel network

Posted by Abdullah on April 11, 2022 at 1:37 pm

1. These emulsifier combinations create lamellar gel network in emulsion.

25% SSL+ 75%(GMS+cetyl alcohol)
25% SPDMA+75%(GMS+cetyl alcohol)

Am i correct in this?

2. If we use glyceryl oleate instead of GMS, will it still make lamellar gel network?

3. If we remove cetyl alcohol and only use 25% SSL+ 75%GMS or 25%SPDMA+ 75%GMS, will it make lamellar gel network?

4. If we remove GMS and only use 25% SSL+ 75% cetyl alcohol or 25% SPDMA+ 75% cetyl alcohol, will it make lamellar gel network?

ketchito replied 2 years, 6 months ago 6 Members · 15 Replies
15 Replies

ketchito

Member
April 12, 2022 at 1:32 pm

@Abdullah Most structured cosmetic emulsions now have a lamellar gel network. Unfortunately (because not everyone has access to the equipment) the only way to really know if you got one is through x-ray diffraction.
Abdullah

Member
April 12, 2022 at 2:37 pm

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Most structured cosmetic emulsions now have a lamellar gel network. Unfortunately (because not everyone has access to the equipment) the only way to really know if you got one is through x-ray diffraction.

That is unfortunate ????
chemicalmatt

Member
April 12, 2022 at 8:48 pm

@Abdullah the GMO does not like to support LLC formation like GMS does, so negative on that. The GMS alone may support with certain emulsifier combinations, but not a singular one like you describe. I’ve always used this ratio for LLC network formation: cetyl alcohol : glyceryl stearate @ 3:1. Seems to work even with those #%$@!! glycosides. The other “hack” with LLC is slow mixing while slow cooling. Too much shear at too steep a thermocline and you end up with soup.
Abdullah

Member
April 13, 2022 at 1:16 am

@chemicalmatt thanks

1. What other emulsifier was combined with cetyl alcohol : glyceryl stearate @ 3:1 and what quantity? Or it is just these two?

2. By too much shear, do you mean duration of homogenization or speed of homogenizer?
I have inline homogenizer with 2800rpm speed.

2. By slow mixing, do you mean mixing after the emulsion is formed?
Abdullah

Member
April 13, 2022 at 1:21 am

i use this for in tank mixing.
Adjustable speed 300-850rpm 1kw.

Is this slow enough mixer?
Graillotion

Member
April 13, 2022 at 2:55 am

chemicalmatt said:

@Abdullah the GMO does not like to support LLC formation like GMS does, so negative on that. The GMS alone may support with certain emulsifier combinations, but not a singular one like you describe. I’ve always used this ratio for LLC network formation: cetyl alcohol : glyceryl stearate @ 3:1. Seems to work even with those #%$@!! glycosides. The other “hack” with LLC is slow mixing while slow cooling. Too much shear at too steep a thermocline and you end up with soup.

I was under the impression…the lamellar emulsion could take some shear while it was very hot (just combined), but then to remove shear after a minute or two….and stir down to room temp, with no enhanced cooling? Would you agree? @chemicalmatt
Graillotion

Member
April 13, 2022 at 9:49 am
grapefruit22

Member
April 15, 2022 at 10:50 am

@Abdullah, you need also high HLB surfactant, check this article: https://knowledge.ulprospector.com/4712/pcc-lamellar-gel-network-technology-a-primer/
ketchito

Member
April 15, 2022 at 1:03 pm

Just some lecture from Dr. Ricardo Diez, that might change the way you look at lamellar gel networks :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYFDRkRclK0
Abdullah

Member
April 16, 2022 at 3:11 am

ketchito said:

Just some lecture from Dr. Ricardo Diez, that might change the way you look at lamellar gel networks :

Thank for video
Abdullah

Member
April 16, 2022 at 3:12 am

grapefruit22 said:

@Abdullah, you need also high HLB surfactant, check this article: https://knowledge.ulprospector.com/4712/pcc-lamellar-gel-network-technology-a-primer/

I have SSL and SPDMA as high hlb surfactants
Abdullah

Member
June 16, 2022 at 3:25 pm

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Most structured cosmetic emulsions now have a lamellar gel network. Unfortunately (because not everyone has access to the equipment) the only way to really know if you got one is through x-ray diffraction.

@ketchito by equipments, do you mean equipments to make LGN or equipments to check if it is made?
If you mean equipments to make LGN, what are those equipments?
Abdullah

Member
June 16, 2022 at 3:44 pm

@chemicalmatt just to know, the molar ratio for high/low HLB surfactant should be between 1:1-1:6 to make LGN. How do you count the molecular weight of GMS when glyceryl mono stearate is 40% or 90% in GMS product?

For example

GMS is 358.563 g/mol
GDS is 625.02 g/mol

GMS that we use is not 100% GMS. It has glyceryl distearate too.
If you use 1% GMS product that has 40% GMS in it, will you consider molecular weight of this 1% GMS for LGN
As 358.563 g/mol

As 500.512 g/mol which is sum of 40% mono & 60% di stearate
Or as 143.4252 g/mol which you count only 40% mono part and don’t count distearate at all?
Paprik

Member
June 17, 2022 at 3:50 am

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Most structured cosmetic emulsions now have a lamellar gel network. Unfortunately (because not everyone has access to the equipment) the only way to really know if you got one is through x-ray diffraction.

@ketchito, what would be the equipment? Is it homogeniser and some low shear overhead mixer?
ketchito

Member
June 17, 2022 at 12:58 pm

Paprik said:

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Most structured cosmetic emulsions now have a lamellar gel network. Unfortunately (because not everyone has access to the equipment) the only way to really know if you got one is through x-ray diffraction.

@ketchito, what would be the equipment? Is it homogeniser and some low shear overhead mixer?

For properly checking if you actually made a LGN, you’d need to analyze it with an X-ray diffractometer (there might be other indirect ways, but this is the gold standard, at least for academics)