Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating SODIUM METHYL COCOYL TAURATE

  • SODIUM METHYL COCOYL TAURATE

    Posted by David08848 on July 21, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    I’ve been researching ingredients for body wash and bubble baths.  I found SODIUM METHYL COCOYL TAURATE in powder form with 70% minimum active from Jeen.  Has anyone worked with this and is it difficult to work with?  I’m also looking for online formulations so if you know of a good one I would appreciate a heads up!  Thanks, David, Stone Cottage Soapworks Inc.

    suswang8 replied 4 weeks ago 6 Members · 15 Replies
  • 15 Replies
  • chemist1

    Member
    July 22, 2015 at 6:26 pm

    I prefer not to work with the powder unless you have to just because of dusting.   I have used used the paste versions more often.  I use Pureact WS (24% active) or Pureact WS Conc (30% active). 

    This material will give a a dense creamy lather. 

  • David08848

    Member
    July 22, 2015 at 6:35 pm

    I’ve did some research on Sodium Methyl Cocoyl Taurate and find that it seems to contain Salt.  I also saw someone mention that it works well is Cocomidopropyl Betaine and and that together they great a thicker product.  Would this be because of the salt in the SMCT?

    Sodium Methyl Oleoyl Taurate is another option I am considering and that also seems to contain salt according to one of the MSDS sheets I read but a lower amount.  Any info you can add would be most welcome!

    I found one formula online from one of the chemical companies and I will take some time to look through UL Prospector for suppliers of both surfactants for formulations they provide.  Obviously, checking out ingredients lists of current products that are out there can be helpful as can taking a trip on the U.S and other patent sites in providing data and formulations.  Ain’t the Internet great?

    I would welcome any suggestions!

  • Bobzchemist

    Member
    July 22, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    Just start trying things. Doing internet research without trying out the various materials and making batches for yourself can be paralyzing, as well as a massive waste of time. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good - if you search and search for the ideal ingredient to use, you’l be passing up  on many perfectly good ingredients that would work well in your formula.

  • David08848

    Member
    July 22, 2015 at 7:48 pm

    Robert,
    I appreciate your input.  You’re right in that I need to give a few things a try and see how they work for me but for me research is part of the learning process.  I come to this as a self taught soapmaker without a background in Cosmetic Chemistry so I have to learn about each ingredient before I attempt to use it.  I am fortunate that I have my own business and can get samples of these ingredients before I make a purchase but these samples are small and as such I must make sure I select things that will work together so I don’t waste them.  I did try something once many years ago and came up with a product that formed 3 distinct layers.  Not a success!  I am also fortunate that I have belonged to message boards with people like Perry and other cosmetic chemists so that I have been able to post or call them and discuss the product I am trying to create.  My problem and others of those in my position is an unfamiliarity with all the “players”!  Checking out ingredients lists on product that are available in the market can be helpful in finding out what goes with what. Checking out formulas from cosmetic ingredient suppliers can also be beneficial for the same reason.  For me, once I see patterns emerge then I know I’m headed in the right direction.  From there it makes it easier to make my choices then I can start making formulations and samples and see where I stand.  But if I don’t take the time to check out each ingredient I may find a problem in working with one or them.  Take Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, for instance, it sounds like it would have great characteristics for a body wash with good lather but it is not always easy to work with hence articles available on “The solubilization of Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate”.   So, sometimes it is better to do that research for those of us who don’t have the background that you have but you are right in that I need to put more of my energy in trying some things sooner and not overlooking something that might be obvious or readily available that may not seem to be the perfect choice but turns out to be in the long run!  Thanks again for your input and for answering this and previous questions!  I do appreciate it!

    David

  • belassi

    Member
    July 23, 2015 at 4:13 am

    Lots of surfactants contain salt, in fact. Betaines in particular. However, in sulphate-free formulations, the salt generally has no effect on viscosity.

  • David08848

    Member
    July 23, 2015 at 8:47 pm

    “Lots of surfactants contain salt, in fact. Betaines in particular.
    However, in sulphate-free formulations, the salt generally has no effect
    on viscosity.” 

    Hence the name “Sodium Methyl Cocoyl Taurate”, I assume?  Sorry if I am having a “duh” moment… but each little bit of information helps fill in the puzzle!  Thanks for adding another piece!  :D  Regards, David

  • Microformulation

    Member
    July 23, 2015 at 9:30 pm

    You may want to also take a look at the Iselux line of surfactants from Innospec (INCI Name:
    Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate). These are already solubilized and are very mild. They provide a great deal of guidance in their use and formulation.

    https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1398383.pdf?bs=2626&b=591982&st=1&sl=34594719&crit=SW5ub3NwZWMgUGVyZm9ybWFuY2UgQ2hlbWljYWxzID4gRm9ybXVsYXRpb25z

  • David08848

    Member
    July 24, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    Mark,

    Thanks for the heads up!  I have checked their site, looked at their offerings and spoke to a rep from there yesterday who was quite helpful!  They also have several blends which may be an option for me and also served to reinforce the choices of surfactants I had made by showing me that they do go together and will produce the type of product I am trying to create!  Thanks again for your guidance!  I will be checking out your site next! :>
    Regards, David

  • Microformulation

    Member
    July 24, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    I have worked with several of their bases and they are very mild and effective. If I have any one caveat it is that you will need to use a little effort to get them to thicken. I believe in the end it was Glucamate VLT that finally did the trick.

    No problem for the help. One advantage many of us have is that we are on the radar of the Chemical reps and we get the products aggressively detailed to us.

    Also, you may want to check out Colonial Chemicals site as well. They have a great selection of surfactants and surfactant bases. Unlike some suppliers they also sell in pails. http://www.colonialchem.com/

  • David08848

    Member
    July 24, 2015 at 9:18 pm

    Mark,

    I look forward to trying some things from Innospec.  I’ll decide this weekend and put in a request.  One of their formulas using a base with CAB included in it already added an additional 3% of CAB to the formula.  I was assuming that was for thickening… but I’ll take your experience into account in working with it.  Perhaps they can advise on that aspect as the rep has been so helpful and they will even send you samples of their formulas made up for you to try!  First time I have heard of that!

    I have had the pleasure of working with young David Anderson Jr. in the past and he even came into my little store before we renovated and moved into our 2800 sq. ft. building here in Bloomsbury, NJ!  He was very helpful and nice to work with.

    I am beginning to see what you mean by being “on the radar of the Chemical reps” and have had some luck in gaining knowledge and information!  Being in New Jersey, I am lucky to have so many chemical companies here in this state.  Protameen has been great and the rep John Carola even delivered several huge bags of Stearic and Myristic Acid…at no charge!  Really nice to work with him and Protameen!  It’s nice to find companies who are willing to work with small businesses!

    Thanks again!
    David

  • Bobzchemist

    Member
    July 24, 2015 at 9:23 pm

    Wow, Bloomsbury, NJ - you’re not in the middle of nowhere, but I bet you can see it from there…

  • David08848

    Member
    July 25, 2015 at 12:42 am

    Bob,  We’re actually in Warren Glen 8 miles from Rt 78 and 6 miles from the Riegelsville Bridge to Upper Buck County which is actually quite a busy road!  Farm country, yes some of it, hillbillies, yes a few of those but more in Pennsyltucky.  Actually quite a lovely area with lots of great views of the hills and the river and nice back roads to cycle on! 

    David

  • Bobzchemist

    Member
    July 25, 2015 at 1:14 am

    I did about 1/2 my growing up in Livingston,in Essex County. You are in a very beautiful, mostly unspoiled area, but making fun of folks from the NJ boonies is an old habit, sorry.

  • David08848

    Member
    July 25, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    Not a problem… coming from Tribeca in NYC we really notice the differences and joke about it all the time ourselves!  It is a culture shock going back and forth between the two.  We’re fighting the destruction of our area against the pipelines going through and under the Delaware River  so it may no longer be “unspoiled” for very much longer! =((

  • suswang8

    Member
    March 25, 2024 at 2:02 pm

    Reopening…

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to use the powder form of SMCT? (Useless instructions from MakingCosmetics tell you nothing more than to mix it in with your other surfactants.) I assume I need to first mix this ingredient with some warm water….and once that’s done, I can add my other (liquid surfactants)…which should also be heated? And from there I can add small amounts of lipids…?

    Thank you.

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