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Sodium Lactate Substitute
I’m developing a shaving soap that is made from Fatty Acids, oils and NaOH/KOH and glycerin using a “cold process” method. I have read where sodium lactate can help in producing a firmer bar as is illustrated here:
http://www.soapqueen.com/bramble-berry-news/sunday-night-spotlight-sodium-lactate/
I have a slight aversion to using sodium lactate and am seeking suggestions for a humectant that assists in the above illustrated function. Sorbitol, Hexylene and other Glycols have been found in my research. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Thanks
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26 Replies
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I should also add that Sodium Lactate suggested usage was below 130F and my soap making temperatures are above that because of the high meltpoint of the Fatty Acids. I need something like the Sodium Lactate that will harden the finished bar, add humectancy and assist in homogenizing the batch without causing it to seize or thicken right away. This many mean 2 or more additional ingredients…
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Through further research I found “sodium citrate” and “sodium citrate and sodium lactate” as ingredients in a shaving soap. “Sodium Citrate” was also listed is an emulsifier used in making cheese that doesn’t release “grease” upon melting… any comments or suggestions would be appreciated!
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Hyaluronic Acid?
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Hello
Had a thought about it and Sodium Lactate is already a salt, it doesn’t seem to be taking part in the reaction. It just peacefully coexists in the product with other newly formed sodium salts.
So you can use it post-trace at the fragrance/additives temperature.
Is it doable when working with the temperature demands of stearic acid? -
@David08848 I make soap with sodium lactate as well. I don’t ever recall there being a concern with heat stability. What’s the problem with using it? Is it just the heat sensitivity that you’re concerned with? My notes indicate that it should be dissolved in water before you add lye. Sodium citrate is a chelant in soap, used to prevent soap scum. I’ve never heard of it used for anything else in soap. If you want to use it, it too should be dissolved in water before adding lye. If you want additional humectancy, you can increase your superfat/lye discount or add additional glycerin (your soap will already have some from the saponification process).
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I am doing this soap using the “cold process” (using high temps.) and am trying to be able to pour the soap as a liquid (to get better finished results and no air pockets) before it becomes a paste but I want to make sure that it is fully emulsified. There is only a small window to time in which I can do this and it is dependent upon keeping the temps as high as possible. Bart, I appreciate your observation and it helps me to better understand the relationship between the sodium lactate and the other ingredients! As I mentioned before the temperature is indeed crucial!
Glad to hear your experience with sodium lactate, thebrain. I took the info from the link I posted and it was stated that it shouldn’t be used above 130F and the meltpoint of Stearic Acid is about 156F so that is part of my concern.
http://www.soapqueen.com/bramble-berry-news/sunday-night-spotlight-sodium-lactate/
I have seen Sodium Lactate sold as a powder and a solution and the above article indicates it can be used as a thickener so that was the appeal as long as it doesn’t speed up the process the the batch can remain emulsified until it is poured. After seeing the “sodium citrate” and “sodium citrate and sodium lactate” in two shaving soap ingredients I posted a question about that as I want to consider all options which may benefit my product and help in my production.
I already use glycerin and the other ingredients are fatty acids and coconut oil so only the coconut oil can contribute glycerin in the process. I know I threw another thing into the pot by mentioning the powerful humectant Hyaluronic Acid but if it can benefit my soap then I’m willing to try it and I have online sources for Hyaluronic Acid that can be purchased in small amounts for now.
Thanks, guys for the input and if you have an additional observations I welcome them! THANKS!
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@David08848 I’m not sure where SoapQueen comes up with 130F. AFAIK, sodium lactate is not a heat sensitive ingredient, and is often included in the heated phase when making cosmetics. I’ve used it in HP and CP soaps and I haven’t had any problems with it at low or high temperatures. Honestly, I wouldn’t worry about it. Also, I’d skip the hyaluronic acid; it’s very expensive and best used in a leave-on moisturizer. I can’t imagine it would have a noticeable benefit in soap.
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It’s not only helpful to learn what to use but what not to use! Thanks, thebrain! I should have considered the source regarding the temperature and I’ll leave it at that… I’m glad to hear that it hasn’t been a problem for you in CP and HP soapmaking especially since I deal with higher than normal temps in this project! I’ll stick with Glycerin! Thanks for your help! I’ll keep you posted on my progress!
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Why not add the sodium lactate to your NaOH solution after it has cooled?
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Mike, I don’t use a cool lye solution because I am saponifying fatty acids with high melt points. I have since read that Sodium Lactate actually creates a more liquid batch when making hot process soap and the hardening of the batch happens when cool. If this is, indeed, the case then it should work well for this purpose. I just wanted to know which was the better choice liquid or powder. Liquid would be more expensive because you’re paying for the water to be shipped and it does come in powdered form which would be cheaper in price and cheaper shipping but there might be some technical reason or product usage reason to buy one vs. the other and that is why I posted this question…
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the powder form of sodium lactate is very hygroscopic; concentrated solutions, which are typically about 60% w/w, are easier to store and handle
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Bill, thanks! I suspected that there might be some sort of problem in working with a powdered form of sodium lactate. I am figuring now that using the powdered form might cause inaccuracies in measuring because of the humectancy and opening and closing of the container with each use so I will go with the liquid form! I appreciate your assistance!
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I’ll bring this back up since the description of what I’m trying to accomplish is described above…
Since I had decided to add Sodium Lactate, should I remove some of the glycerin in the formula and replace it with sodium lactate or should I leave the glycerin percentage alone and take it out of the water phase? Thanks!
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Now another option (as suggested by my personal trainer 😮 ) would be to take the active (in this case sodium lactate is used at 3%) out of the glycerin (1.8%) and the water (1.2%) out of water! The numbers work out and the percentage of “liquid” i.e. H2O, glycerin and sodium lactate solution, remains the same. Please tell me if I am thinking this out correctly! Thank you!
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Take it out of the water.
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Thanks, Belassi! This was probably a simple problem but with me the difficult stuff becomes easy and the simple stuff is difficult! I’ll let you know how it comes out! Thanks, again!
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Funnily enough I just came back from a seminar given by Univar and Corbion Purac was represented. They make a very pure version of lactic acid with hardly any odour. Besides lactic acid and sodium lactate they also have potassium lactate, calcium lactate, zinc lactate, sodium lactate + sodium gluconate, and ammonium lactate. And I have no idea what all those might be used for.
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I have seen potassium lactate listed during my research over the last few weeks but I haven’t seen the calcium, zinc and ammonium versions. I just did a quick look-up and saw several of these used in food processing! Thanks again for your reply!
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I found this on an Aussie site… thought it looked interesting!
http://www.aussiesoapsupplies.com.au/sodium-lactate-plus.html
FYI
David
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So, as a follow-up, I managed to formulate my shaving soap, found the proper temps and techniques to use to produce this product and successfully created a great shaving soap and went into production! I try to think as a cosmetic chemist which is why I try to avoid products or techniques normally used by soapmakers. Sodium Lactate was indeed what I needed to use to create this product although it is often used by some soapmakers to produce a harder bar which is why I was trying to avoid it. I just wanted to say “Thank You” to Perry and you all for your input and support! I appreciate it!
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Hi Every one. In my region, I dont have sodium lactate to put into soap but I have the Lactic acid. How I use in soap? do I have extra lye to saponify ? If so then why to add extra lye? As lactic acid is good for skin as humactant so why not use it in pure form?
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You can’t have any type of acid in a product with pH >9! Basic chemistry should tell you that. acid+base->salt.
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Thanks Belassi.
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You may be able to find the equivalence in NaOH for adding lactic acid in a soapers forum; you should be able to calculate it easily enough, just look up the molecular weights using Google. sodium hydroxide + lactic acid -> sodium lactate + water so look up the balanced equation. OK?
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got it, Sir.
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