Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Silicones + H20: Making a Hydrophobic Siloxane Blend Able to Accommodate Small Amounts of Water

  • Silicones + H20: Making a Hydrophobic Siloxane Blend Able to Accommodate Small Amounts of Water

    Posted by Anonymous on November 7, 2018 at 6:46 pm
    Howdy all,
    I have a question about silicones (and making them play more nicely with water) that I’ve spent ages (…ha, and more money on trial ingredients than I’d care to admit) trying to get to the bottom of without success —> and so I thought I’d reach out here to see if someone here might be able to help.
    Namely, is there an ingredient (or ingredients) I could add to a mixture of siloxanes (specifically, a mix of dimethicone, cyclomethicone [D5], and possibly also a small amount of dimethiconol and/or phenyl trimethicone) that would make it slightly miscible with a very small amount of water? 
    That is to say:  I’m looking for something to add that would enable the silicone blend to accommodate a small addition of water (approx. just 1 part water to 20-35 parts silicone) in some sort of suspension (even if it’s one that would eventually separate) that would maintain the same skin-feel and, most importantly, similar level of lubricity.  (It’s fine if the additional component would result in a change to other qualities [e.g., color, clarity] either when added or when that small amount of water was added as long as it maintained a similar level of lubricity).
    Originally, I thought I might want to consider some kind of water-in-silicone emulsion —> but I realized that this wouldn’t fit my needs, since the final product would not contain any water in itself… My goal is to make the final product able to maintain its integrity even in the presence of a small amount of water.  Here are the three potential avenues I’ve been considering:

    PEG/PPG Dimethicone
    I know that there are dimethicone copolyols (e.g.,  I experiment with some PEG-8 dimethicone) that *are* water-soluble… However, at least in the case of PEG-8, the water-solubility comes at the cost of solubility in silicone as well as a significantly different texture / much reduced slipperiness.  But digging into the literature, I see that there are, in fact, other dimethicone copolyols that are ‘amphiphilic’ to varying extents in water, oil, and silicones… And I’m wondering if there might be an amphiphilic PEG-X dimethicone formulation that’s soluble in silicone while being only partially miscible in water—-and whether you think adding an amount of this to my siloxane blend could fit my needs with accommodating a small amount of water without significantly altering the feel of the product?  
    Alkyl Dimethicone Copolyol
    I’ve also considered the addition of an *alkyl* dimethicone crosspolymer—-since, from the literature I’ve read, it seems this alkylated copolymer might increase the hydrophilicity of the formulation (since I know it’s sometimes used in order to reduce syneresis in a formulation)… Thus, it seems at least *plausible* that  could add this to my siloxane blend to achieve a similar water-sequestering effect?  (Ha, but I have no idea whether this would actually have said effect in *practice*…) 
    Surfactants / Emulsifiers
    Lastly, I was contemplating whether I might be able to achieve my goal by adding a small amount of some sort of surfactant to the silicone blend that wouldn’t much change the skin-feel / slip of the blend —> but that would, in the event of exposure to a small amount of water, ‘kick in’ and help that water disperse through the silicone liquid more effectively than it otherwise would [or *wouldn’t*—if you will…]
    Ha, so while I’m *hoping* [?] there is, in fact, an easy magic potion that dissolves into silicone without significantly altering the texture (really just hanging out in the background until a small amount of water comes along—when it jumps into action to surround / sequester / suspend it)… Sadly, I’m not sure such a chemical exists—given how that which is soluble in silicone tends to be hydrophobic, and vice versa… But I don’t want to give up hope yet that there might be *something* that could possibly work for me here.
    And before I spend all my savings on a collection of funky dimethicone copolymers to see if any of them work, I thought I should first consult the expertise of you fine folk to see if you could offer any suggestions / possibly help to point me in the right direction… [Ha, or to just get a splash of cold water that there’s simply no way to formulate a siloxane blend that’s also ever-so-slightly hydrophilic in a way that maintains a similar lubricity quality of the original blend of silicone liquids].
    And thus, I bow down before you—forum members far wiser and more knowledgable than myself to humbly ask your advice… ?‍♂️ ?
    And thank you very much for your help!  I appreciate any ideas / pointers you guys might be able to offer!

    Thanks again!! ?

    EVchem replied 5 years, 5 months ago 1 Member · 1 Reply
  • 1 Reply
  • EVchem

    November 8, 2018 at 12:37 pm

    I would suggest looking at some of grant industries  products, they have several products that have water and silicones blended together (http://www.grantinc.com/products/silicone-elastomers/gransil-siw-elastomer-gels/). It seems like they go route three and use decyl glucoside.

    So maybe that can give you an idea of how to move forward, though I’m still not sure what your end product application is. 

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