-
role of inactive ingredients in formulations/waterless formulations
Hello
I have been wondering if inactive ingredients really play a role in formulations? And how to recognize them in the INCI list? i read that a comsetic prodyct is made of 90% of excipienst; so this means active ingredients only make up 10%, so does this means that 10% is enough to deliver result? and that this mean that to have potent product we need a mix of 90%of inactives and only 10% of actives?
Im aware that in the INCI deck ingredients concentration is in a descending order from the highest to the lowest. So tHIS MEANs that an active can be at the bottom of the INCI deck and this means it is low in dosage right?
How many actives should there be in a product?Is it possible to formulate a waterless face scrub? Are all waterless skincare products in the form of powder? And by waterless does it mean it cant even be replaced with rose water or aloe vera? Ive read that water helps to dissolve many ingredients that are beneficial to skin. Without water, you’d have to make do without many skin beneficial ingredients or be happy with a gritty, unpleasant texture.So this begs the question can i replace water with fruit water or simply aloe vera jucie or rose water or bitter orange water which is famous here in Morocco or lavender water or camomille water?
Right now im having a face cleanser; a sunscreen and a face scrub. Can the sunscreen be anhydrous and thus can i replace water with rose water? is it the same effect i mean will it dissolve the ingredients and also is it good for the planet?
Thank you
-
20 Replies
-
Also are products without fillers in skincare a myth or do they exist? Because apparently excipients are important.
Thanks -
1. I have been wondering if inactive ingredients really play a role in formulations?
It depends on what you mean by “active” or “inactive”. Same ingredient can either or both in different products. But short answer is yes - “inactive” ingredients do play role in formulation. The simple reason: if you can make product without them - you will do it because it is cheaper.2. so does this means that 10% is enough to deliver result?
There is no rule on what percentage it should be, it depends on the ingredient itself. For example retinol, it is used up to 1%, but tretinoin is less than 0.5%. Whereas niacinamide 1-5%, but L-ascorbic acid 10-20%. All ingredients are different and recommended dosage is usually based on studies.3. to have potent product we need a mix of 90%of inactives and only 10% of actives?
No, tretinoin for example will be very “active” at <1%. There is no rule, it all depends on the ingredient. Also, delivery system matters.4. So tHIS MEANs that an active can be at the bottom of the INCI deck and this means it is low in dosage right?
Yes, but only till 1%. Ingredients lower than 1% can be in any order (if I remember correctly). I would not recommend you to guess on percentages based on INCI list. Because next INCI lists are the same, but percantage is different:
INCI 1: Water, Lactic Acid (10%), Glycerin (5%), Preservative
INCI 2: Water, Lactic Acid (2%), Glycerin (1%), Preservative
5. How many actives should there be in a product?
No rules here, all you can put together to have a stable product for selling.6. Is it possible to formulate a waterless face scrub?
Yes, scrubbing particles can be dispersed in any liquid which is non-water: oil, soft butter, glycerin, glycols, silicones etc7. Are all waterless skincare products in the form of powder?
No. I already mentioned oils, glycerin and glycols. Take The Ordinary products, for example. Their Vitamin C products are waterless. Waterless != solid. It means explicitly no water8. And by waterless does it mean it cant even be replaced with rose water or aloe vera?
yes, they have water inside.9. I’ve read that water helps to dissolve many ingredients that are beneficial to skin.
True, it is the best solvent, but not all ingredients can be dissolved in water alone or at all, e.g. oils. You need to check each ingredient for solubility.10. Can I replace water with fruit water or simply aloe vera jucie
It depends on your formulation.11. Can the sunscreen be anhydrous and thus can i replace water with rose water?
Yes, it can be waterless. No one knows if you can replace something if you don’t specify the whole formula. It doesn’t matter anyway, because sunscreen is very difficult product to make, you need good ingredients which hard or costly to buy, a lot of knowledge and testing lab. You should never DIY sunscreen if you are not a professional (assuming from your questions you are not).12. Will it dissolve the ingredients and also is it good for the planet?
No one knows your formula to answer this question.Although I answered to some degree, I would suggest to take school chemistry classes first, then read Perry’s book and listen to podcast. It will answer most of you questions in details.
-
Hello @toketsu;Thanks a lot for your answers and for clarifying all my doubts.
Few points remain unclear in regards to the last answers if you could check them again please.1-So waterless means that i cant even put aloe vera juce or rose water or fruit water like kiwi water in the formulation instead of water? Bceuase aloe vera juice or rose water are derived from plants and these are beneficial as opposed to plain water that wont do anything.
2-For in a facial cleanser like a gel cleanser can water be replaced by rose water or aloe vera juice? Lets say i want to have a waterless skincare line; so how can i have a gel cleanser without water? Also i want waterless so as to reduce water consumtion which is good for the environment.is Aloe vera juice obtained by adding water to aloe vera?
3-I asked if i can replace water with fruit water or ale juice or rose water and you said it depends on the formulation.So lets say its for a cleansing gel for dry skin.Is it possible?
4-Also are gel textures suitable for dry and senstive skin? I read that when it comes to a cleanser for instance gels are better for acne prone and oily skin and that dry skin is better off zith oily textures.So is it possible to have an oily gel?
-
2. Lets say i want to have a waterless skincare line;
You don’t want to. You don’t have even basic knowledge of chemistry. Skincare is not food, it is not like you can mix ingredients and see what happens.
This is just dangerous for those who will buy it. I though you are just a DIY person you does it as a hobby, but now I see you gonna make products for sale. I will not answer your questions anymore. Please live real products to professionals. -
Hello.
Im enquiring because im taking cosmetology classes and am interested in learning. Im outsourcing the manufacturing to a third party manufacturer and this should not prevent me from asking questions and learning from experts. The expert in any field was once a beginner who also enquired.
There are a lot of people here who also enquire and want to learn/A forum is place for debate,discussions,and advices.
Thanks -
See this post. What are active ingredients in cosmetics.
But basically, the classification of “active” and “non-active” in cosmetics is not correct. At least in the US, it would be illegal for a cosmetic to have an active ingredient. Having an active ingredient (the way it’s legally meant) would make a product a drug, not a cosmetic.
The better term to use is “functional” ingredient. These are the ingredients in the formula that provide a functional benefit. The things that you call “non-active” are really “Aesthetic Modifiers”. These are the ingredients that make it so the functional ingredients can be delivered to the body in a way that looks, smells, and feels good. They are also added to the formula to improve long-term stability.
There should be no ingredient added for no reason at all. All ingredients have some purpose in the formula. If any crucial ingredient is removed, the formula would not look, feel, or smell as good when the consumer uses the product.
Waterless mean “no water”. No, you cannot replace your water with a juice and call it waterless. Aloe vera juice is made up of >95% water. In fact, ALL juices are mostly water.
The texture of a product has little to do with the performance among different skin types. There is no truth to notion that gels perform better for acne prone skin. This is all just made-up marketing fluff. It’s not based on science.
-
@Ghita37 I believe you’d benefit more for reading some books, and the asking question. There’s a very nice technical book called Beginning Cosmetic Chemistry. Also, Perry gives very nice courses, as well as few others. From there you can ask specific questions.
-
Thank you so much @Perry.I just learned something new now 🙂
1-Why do brands though keep on saying our products are infused wiht the best active ingredients and these same brands sell in the US?
2-In regards to waterless i mean a product made without plain water but can be replaced by hydrosol for instance.Would that still be considered waterless?
I found a waterless cleanser that has a 78.55% neroli hydrosol and they said its a waterless cleanser. So my idea behind waterless is to replace plain water with anything that brings real value like hydrosol or fruit juice as these are full of vitamins.
https://www.thezoereport.com/beauty/waterless-beauty-products-may-just-be-the-future-of-the-industry
So i think the idea is to create products where pure water is replaced with floral water or fruit water or aloe water as these are vitamin rich.3-You mentioned that all ingredients are added for a purpose.So what about brands which want to keep their formula to a miminum number of ingredients?Does this mean the product wont perform well as compared to a formula that has 18 ingredients? My idea is to have a line of product where there are ingredients that play a role instead of having a product where we use cheap and useless ingredients to bulk up the formula. I mean keep ingredients to a minimum doesnt mean we wont have a potent product does it? In the class im taking the lecturer said that we can achieve efficacy with a least amount of ingredients in the formula. What do you think?
Lets say i have a face scrub and we know face scrub are primarily made of 2 main ingredients: exfoliating agent ( chemical or physical) and carrier oil.If its waterless is it okay to not use preservatives? Also if i want to keep my face scrub formulation minimal can i use only 7 ingredients?5- if a product is waterless meaning no pure water or floral water should we still put preservative in that product?
-
Thank you so much @Perry.I just learned something new now 🙂
1-Why do brands though keep on saying our products are infused wiht the best active ingredients and these same brands sell in the US?
2-In regards to waterless i mean a product made without plain water but can be replaced by hydrosol for instance.Would that still be considered waterless?
I found a waterless cleanser that has a 78.55% neroli hydrosol and they said its a waterless cleanser. So my idea behind waterless is to replace plain water with anything that brings real value like hydrosol or fruit juice as these are full of vitamins.
https://www.thezoereport.com/beauty/waterless-beauty-products-may-just-be-the-future-of-the-industry
So i think the idea is to create products where pure water is replaced with floral water or fruit water or aloe water as these are vitamin rich.3-You mentioned that all ingredients are added for a purpose.So what about brands which want to keep their formula to a miminum number of ingredients?Does this mean the product wont perform well as compared to a formula that has 18 ingredients? My idea is to have a line of product where there are ingredients that play a role instead of having a product where we use cheap and useless ingredients to bulk up the formula. I mean keep ingredients to a minimum doesnt mean we wont have a potent product does it? In the class im taking the lecturer said that we can achieve efficacy with a least amount of ingredients in the formula. What do you think?
Lets say i have a face scrub and we know face scrub are primarily made of 2 main ingredients: exfoliating agent ( chemical or physical) and carrier oil.If its waterless is it okay to not use preservatives? Also if i want to keep my face scrub formulation minimal can i use only 7 ingredients? I just dont want my products to be full of filler ingredients that play no role and if i remove them it wont make much of a difference. Also bulking up a formula with ingredients that are not necessary will just increase the cost of the product.So the idea is to use only whats necessary to treat a speaific skin concern.5- if a product is waterless meaning no pure water or floral water should we still put preservative in that product?
6-I was reading an article that showed two types of serum formulations.One packed with excipients only and one packed with “functional” ingredients.
Example 1: INCI list begins – Aqua, Glycerin, Alcohol, Propanediol, Butylene Glycol, Isotridecyl Isononanoate, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Squalane …As you can see excipients are in high dosage here.
Example 2: INCI list begins – Aqua, Algae (Furcellaria Lumbricalis) Extract, Bacillus/Rice Bran Extract/Soybean Extract Ferment Filtrate, Oligo Sodium Hyaluronate, Rosa Centifolia Flower Extract…I believe this second serum here will be potent compared to the first one/ So my idea is to use “functionla”ingredients rather thn bulking up wiht excipients.
-
1. Because the law is like a speed limit law. People ignore it and the authorities selectively choose when to enforce the law. Also, the people who write the ad copy know how to do it in a way that isn’t technically illegal.
2. If it has water (from juice or extract or anywhere else) it is not waterless.
A company claiming that a 78.55% neroli hydrosol is lying. If you don’t mind lying, then replace your water with a juice and call it waterless.
3. More ingredients does not equal better performance. In fact, more ingredients typically means a poorly formulated products. The goal is to use the minimum amount of ingredients that still give you good performance.4. No one uses cheap & useless ingredients to “bulk up” a cosmetic formula. That’s ridiculous & makes no sense. Cosmetics are not food. There is nothing to “bulk up”.
5. Yes, I would but some might advise you don’t have to. No water = not much microbial growth. On the other hand, if water gets in the product you could have microbial growth. That’s why I would add a preservative even to a waterless formula.
6. The first example is the only one that will work. All of those extracts are just bogus marketing ingredients that won’t actually do anything. In a serum, Glycerin & Propanediol and Butylene Glycol are ingredients that actually have an effect on skin. Algea extract, Rice bran extract…pretty much anything that has the word “extract” in it, is completely a bogus, fake ingredient that won’t do anything. These are “story” ingredients that companies put in formulas to dupe consumers into buying their products. It’s a fairy tale spun by a cosmetic marketer.
If you want to make products that work, forget about the “natural” extracts. Put in actual functional ingredients like Glycerin, and surfactants, and all the other things that make products work. Plant extracts are not it.
-
Thank you so much @Perry.God bless you for your support and help 🙂
My goodness i just learned something new here!So let me do a recap as usual 🙂
1-I gave 2 INCI decks and you said the first one is actually the potent one!!I thought the second one is the best one 😐
Example 1: INCI list begins – Aqua, Glycerin, Alcohol, Propanediol, Butylene Glycol, Isotridecyl Isononanoate, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Squalane …As you can see excipients are in high dosage here.
Example 2: INCI list begins – Aqua, Algae (Furcellaria Lumbricalis) Extract, Bacillus/Rice Bran Extract/Soybean Extract Ferment Filtrate, Oligo Sodium Hyaluronate, Rosa Centifolia Flower Extrac
Lesson learned: steer clear from anything that has EXTRACT, dont use them in my products.
Now i understand why you said the first INCI deck is the one that works!! The second one only has extracts.This is so tiring because articles are misleading/I cant even describe how many articles i read when i started this skincare business. Im glad im talking to real people in this forum and checking my mistakes.Im so humbled to be among you all here experts and beginners alike. Thanks a lot.
@Perry could you kindly have a look at this INCI deck of this serum and tell me what you think? I just want to know if the hype behind this product is really worth it or again the brand just invested in branding and managed to make a hit out of it! To ME as a beginner it seems to be full of “functional” ingredients.What do you think?
Sesame Oil (Sesamum Indicum), Rice Bran Oil (Oryza Sativa), Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Manjishta (Rubia Cordifolia), Saffron ( Crocus Sativus), Lodh Tree Bark (Symplocos Racemosa), Nutgrass (Cyperus Rotundus), Vetiver (Vetiveria Zizanoides), Licorice Root (Glycyrrhiza Glabra), Bay Leaf (Cinnamomum Tamala), Himalayan cherry (Prunus Cerasoides), Lotus seed (Nelumbo Nucifera), Pushkarmool (Inula Racemosa), Turmeric(Curcuma Longa), Indian Barberry (Berberis Aristata), Cobra Saffron (Mesua Ferrea), Flame Of The Forest (Butea Menosperma), Priyangu (Callicarpa Macrophylla), Banyan (Ficus Bengalensis), Mustard (Brassica Campestris), Tocopherol, Rose Essential Oil (Rosa Damascena).
As per the waterless neroli cleanser; no im not interested in lying.Im interested in building credibility over the long haul and i know everything i do or say will be held against me.This is why im educating myself while the manufacturer is working on my products.
-
@Perry i forgot to ask so can we consider extracts as fillers that dont play a role and just bulk up the formiula of the product? You said no one uses ingredients to bulk up but as you saw on the second INCI list the brand uses extracts only and they are filling in the formula but without any result/ So YES do brands use cheap ingredients just to bulk up and this is exactly what i want.
So what i learned today is that excipients can also be functional ingredients.Again when i read an article i found tht excipients only carry “functional”ingredients and allow them to penetrate the skin but based on what you said excipients like PROPANEDIOL, PROPYLENE GLYCOL, are actually benfitial to the skin so they are not bulking up the formula.
Can i say they complement the “functional” ingredients and help them play their role better and penetrate the skin better? Would that be a good way to say it? -
Regarding the active, excipient, in active, functional terms, they are used by different people and ways to categorize the ingredients in the formulations.
I’ve created an example of an anti inflammatory serum with treatment claims for reference. You can see how it can be categorized.
-
So what i learned today is that excipients can also be functional ingredients.Again when i read an article i found tht excipients only carry “functional”ingredients and allow them to penetrate the skin but based on what you said excipients like PROPANEDIOL, PROPYLENE GLYCOL, are actually benfitial to the skin so they are not bulking up the formula.
Can i say they complement the “functional” ingredients and help them play their role better and penetrate the skin better? Would that be a good way to say it? -
Hi @Perry, you said you would put a preservative in a waterless formula.
Yes, I would but some might advise you don’t have to. No water = not much microbial growth. On the other hand, if water gets in the product you could have microbial growth. That’s why I would add a preservative even to a waterless formula.
So waterless doesnt necessarily mean its no longer a breeding ground for bacteria right?
And is it possible to replace water altogether with hydrosol or fruit juice in the formulation of skincre products?
Thanks -
@Perry i was reading this article about filler ingredients used in the formulation of skincare products.
The founder of the brand is saying that when there is a high cocnentration of active ingredients you dont need to use a lot of the product because its full of actives/functionla ingredients.
Also the foudner says that A formula is comprised of several different active and key ingredients from nature and science – and must all work together to achieve the goal. By ssaying key ingredients do they mean filler ingredients such as glycerin;https://www.bioelements.com/blogs/blog/filler-ingredients-skin-care
Also the founder says:
The high quality and concentration of our ingredients means we don’t need fillers to make up the difference.
So does this mean they have filler-free formula? Is it possible? Based on what i read and what you said filler ingredients do play a role be it in the texture of the products or in how they deliver the functionla ingredients to the skin etc.So how can the founder say we dont need fillers? Kindly have a look at the link below of the brand Bioelements and see the moistuirzer ingredients/It has fillers; so why is the founder saying the brand doesnt have fillers?
https://www.lovelyskin.com/o/bioelements-really-rich-moistureAlso their cleanser has filler ingredients as per below; so i dont understand why the founder says it doesnt have fillers?
https://www.bioelements.com/collections/cleansers/products/moisture-positive-cleanserThank you
-
@Ghita37 - If there is a company that is trying to sell you a product, you can’t believe what they say about their product. They may or may not be lying but they are certainly spinning a story that best highlights their own product.
If someone claims there are “filler” ingredients in cosmetic products, they are lying. No one puts “filler” ingredients in formulas. Every ingredient (with the exception of claims ingredients) has a purpose in the formula.
If you see the word “filler” related to a cosmetic product or formula, you should quickly conclude that the author is not a good scientist, knows very little about cosmetic formulation, and the information is not worth reading.
-
Im little confused here @Perry; Based on the countless articles i read filler ingredients are ingredients that are not active ingredients and active/functionla ingredients are ingredients that are targeting a specific issue/For instance i have acne well the functional ingredient i might use is salicylic acid; if i have dry skin the active/functional ingredient i might use is HA; if i have oily skin the functional ingredient i might use is fuller earth clay for instance to absorb the excess oil. All this i understand now/So what are filler ingredients then? Is it paraben; dyes; fragrances; water; alcohol; is there a list of filler ingredients i can have a look at?
Also are emulsifier considered filler ingredient or aesthetic modifierss? Are preservatives considered fillers? Are plant extracts considered fillers? What are claim ingredients? and are you saying clails ingredients deliver so result?
I was reading this article on Chemist Corner and i love it!!!!
https://chemistscorner.com/what-are-claims-ingredients/#:~:text=There%20are%20some%20ingredients%20that,look%20better%2C%20and%20remain%20stable.
So basically there are 3 categories of ingredients @Perry
the active/functionla ingredients like hyalurocni acid; coenzyme Q 10, algae; etc/
Then comes aesthetic midifiers ( ingredients that give texture for instance) then there is the Marketing ingredient also known as fairy dust ingredients or claim ingredientsor story ingredients. So now i understand better Perry. When you used to tell me choose an ingredient for your story you meant in that case a story ingredient.
The article mentions advanced technology ingredients; can you please explain what are these? ( they are also claims ingredients)Thanks a lot Perry 🙂
-
I think the problem is that there is no clear meaning for the term “filler ingredient.” People use the term in a negative way. They mean “ingredients added to the formula that don’t make the product work any better & just make the formula cheaper”.
While this term might apply to food, it certainly doesn’t apply to cosmetics. Every ingredient is added for some purpose. Preservatives are not filler ingredients because if you remove them from the formula the product will become contaminated and unusable. Dyes & fragrances are not filler ingredients because they improve the experience of using the product. If you remove them people won’t like the product as much. -
@Perry thanks a lot.So are you saying all ingredients play a role in a cosmetic formulation? Ok what about plant extracts, what about parebens, SLS, phtalate?
Also can we say that a good formula is a good combination between functional ingredients and aesthetic modifiers? Also when this brand Bioelement said that we only use active ingredients, now from what i understand this cant be true cus they need aesthetic modifiers right?
Are emulsifiers, emollients, preservatives consideres aesthetic modifiers?
Log in to reply.