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Please help formula separates
Hi, so I made a simple leave in conditioner but then after a few weeks water started separate from it. I wanted it to be a light leave-in conditioner so i used 0.05% of the emulsifiying blend (Glyceryl Stearate (and) Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate) even though the usage rate is 2%-8% Could this be the only reason it separated. I would love some help I am trying to learn to be better at this.
Makes 8oz
Phase1
Distilled Water 6.86oz
Glycerin-0.3oz
BTMS-50- 0.07oz
Phase 2
Castor Oil- 0.2oz
Emulsifying Blend- 0.05oz
Sorbic Acid- 0.05oz
Mango Butter- 0.31oz
Phase 3
Vitamin E -0.05oz
D-Panthenol- 0.1oz
Fragrance- 0.01oz -
20 Replies
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Would you consider translating this into formulating language? More people will look at it then.
That would be…grams…and percentages.
Aloha.
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ok i will. Thank you
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Phase1
Distilled Water 85.75%
Glycerin- 3.75%
BTMS-50- 0.875%
Phase 2
Castor Oil- 2.5%
Emulsifying Blend- 0.625%
Sorbic Acid- 0.625%
Mango Butter- 3.875%
Phase 3
Vitamin E -0.625%
D-Panthenol- 0.125%
Fragrance- 1.25% -
BTMS is cationic & SSL is anionic. Not compatible.
Remove SSL & increase BTMS or remove BTMS, increase preservative blend and add a polymer for stability.
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@Abdullah thank you so much! are there any polymer you suggest?
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What is the INCI of Emulsifying Blend? Sounds like it could be anything.
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@Pharma I put it in the first section of the comment. It’s a blend of Glyceryl Stearate (and) Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate)
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Start from some xanthan gum.
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Ah… okay… but you mention there 0.05% and in the LOI 0.625%???Anyway, that blend is meant to create lamellar structures, not micellar ones. Hence, you can’t just downscale it proportionally when using less oil phase. You have to use a certain quantity to get a stable structure. I’m also not convinced that this blend is suitable for such a small oil phase.As mentioned by @Abdullah, BTMS 50 is cationic (and would also create lamellar structures) whilst SSL can be anionic (we don’t know the pH or your formulation) and hence, at the wrong proportion the two make an emulsion highly unstable. At the right one, the ‘incompatibility’ can actually increase stability… remains to be tested (especially because you don’t know how much of the two emulsifiers are actually in the two blends). Still, if you want to combine BTMS 50 with a second emulsifying wax, go for a nonionic one. Again, the overall % is low and instead of increasing it, me personally, would go with a different type of emulsifier for such a small oil phase.
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@Pharma ok thanks so much. I will switch the emulsifier. I am definitely learning about cationic and anionic now.
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@Pharma At the right one, the ‘incompatibility’ can actually increase stability…
Can you explain this interaction a bit more or where can i study about interactions like this.This is interesting for me because i have seen some Serave products and phique conditioner that uses anionic & cationic surfactant. I knew they are doing something good but don’t know what are they doing and why are they doing so.
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@Abdullah I found some publications on PubMed and ScienceDirect. I didn’t safe them… sorry!
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Does that incompatibility have anything to do with coacervate formation or is that really just for deposition benefits?
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Abdullah said:@Pharma At the right one, the ‘incompatibility’ can actually increase stability…
Can you explain this interaction a bit more or where can i study about interactions like this.This is interesting for me because i have seen some Serave products and phique conditioner that uses anionic & cationic surfactant. I knew they are doing something good but don’t know what are they doing and why are they doing so.
@Abdullah You can start here: http://www.scientificspectator.com/documents/Olenick%20Compilation/Ch%2015%20Cationic%20Anionic%201.pdf
There are also few books that talk about the benefits from these type of antagonistic interactions.
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@ketchito I can’t open or download the file in Link. Can you resend it.
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Pharma said:Abdullah said:@Pharma no problem. What should i search for in Google to get results about these?
Why don’t you want to search in PubMed or ScienceDirect? Anyway, maybe try THIS.
I will but i don’t know what should i search for. What should i write in search box?
When i searched anionic cationic i only got the result of SLS, SLES+ some amphoteric surfactants for cleansing product.
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@Pharma Hi, you mentioned my oil phase is low. Is there a specific ratio for the oil phase? I switched the emulsifier to cetearyl alcohol by it self and I used 0.08 and I also used 0.08 BTMS-50 but a think i might see a small speck of water separation.
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I apologize i had to edit the above @Pharma Hi, you mentioned my oil phase is low. Is there a specific ratio for the oil phase? I switched the emulsifier to cetearyl alcohol by it self and I used 1% and I also used 1% BTMS-50 but a think i might see a small speck of water separation.
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