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Niacinamide 10% in formula
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Graillotion said:Abdullah said:Graillotion said:MarkBroussard said:@AbdullahOoops! … My comment did not post. To answer your question:
“So will there be any effect that zinc PCA or sodium PCA has?”
Let’s assume you mix 50/50 Zn Sulfate and Na PCA … Yes, but why not just use 1/2 the amount of ZnPCA and not have to combine two separate ingredients when you don’t get to list ZnPCA on your ingredient list?
Cost and availability to the small-time operator.
What about zinc gluconate?
When I was in the zinc selection process…I sent my respected advisor a list of candidates. Below is his response, I hope you find this helpful (keep in mind….the topic of discussion…is DEODORANT!). So, his comments might be different in a general skincare context.
Yea, the (Sulfate) monohydrate is like ‘wet’ zinc sulfate. I’d go with that one.
If you want zinc in its free form (which is the one active against microbes), zinc sulfate is the way to go. Also, it’s an INCI ingredient (not sure whether or not the other forms are).
Zinc oxide is a different horse, don’t go with that one.
Zinc gluconate and citrate are weakly chelated… they may be okay for oral supplementation but come with a lower overall zinc content (large chelate molecules) and poor skin permeation. From what I can see, no benefit in cosmetics.
Zinc aspartate and glycinate are amino acid complexes, similar to zinc PCA. However, many commercial amino acid complexes are actually a blend of the amino acid with sulfate salts… depends on the supplier. Bulk supplements isn’t always too straightforward with the exact composition… If you want zinc in your skin instead of on your skin, zinc glycinate would be a good choice and has a higher % of zinc than other organic salts/complexes (zinc aspartate isn’t soluble, forget that one). Zinc picolinate is close to zinc PCA and probably the most stable complex (also most pH tolerant) though I’m not sure what higher amounts of picolinic acid would do to skin (picolinates are great for gastrointestinal absorption and likely show good skin penetration too).
Zinc orotate… too poor solubility, too low amount of overall zinc, and too pricey. I really don’t see any advantage of that one.
Hence, on the skin: zinc sulfate (quite heavily counts as electrolyte), in the skin: zinc glycinate (unless zinc picolinate is an INCI ingredient, both don’t count as electrolytes).Do you mean topical by on skin and oral by in skin?
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Abdullah said:Graillotion said:Abdullah said:Graillotion said:MarkBroussard said:@AbdullahOoops! … My comment did not post. To answer your question:
“So will there be any effect that zinc PCA or sodium PCA has?”
Let’s assume you mix 50/50 Zn Sulfate and Na PCA … Yes, but why not just use 1/2 the amount of ZnPCA and not have to combine two separate ingredients when you don’t get to list ZnPCA on your ingredient list?
Cost and availability to the small-time operator.
What about zinc gluconate?
When I was in the zinc selection process…I sent my respected advisor a list of candidates. Below is his response, I hope you find this helpful (keep in mind….the topic of discussion…is DEODORANT!). So, his comments might be different in a general skincare context.
Yea, the (Sulfate) monohydrate is like ‘wet’ zinc sulfate. I’d go with that one.
If you want zinc in its free form (which is the one active against microbes), zinc sulfate is the way to go. Also, it’s an INCI ingredient (not sure whether or not the other forms are).
Zinc oxide is a different horse, don’t go with that one.
Zinc gluconate and citrate are weakly chelated… they may be okay for oral supplementation but come with a lower overall zinc content (large chelate molecules) and poor skin permeation. From what I can see, no benefit in cosmetics.
Zinc aspartate and glycinate are amino acid complexes, similar to zinc PCA. However, many commercial amino acid complexes are actually a blend of the amino acid with sulfate salts… depends on the supplier. Bulk supplements isn’t always too straightforward with the exact composition… If you want zinc in your skin instead of on your skin, zinc glycinate would be a good choice and has a higher % of zinc than other organic salts/complexes (zinc aspartate isn’t soluble, forget that one). Zinc picolinate is close to zinc PCA and probably the most stable complex (also most pH tolerant) though I’m not sure what higher amounts of picolinic acid would do to skin (picolinates are great for gastrointestinal absorption and likely show good skin penetration too).
Zinc orotate… too poor solubility, too low amount of overall zinc, and too pricey. I really don’t see any advantage of that one.
Hence, on the skin: zinc sulfate (quite heavily counts as electrolyte), in the skin: zinc glycinate (unless zinc picolinate is an INCI ingredient, both don’t count as electrolytes).Do you mean topical by on skin and oral by in skin?
Oral means…consuming it for a benefit…
Somethings just aren’t meant to be applied…
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gentle bump for later read.
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@ketchito Thanks for your response. Niacinamide is also an antioxidant, it will protect the botanical extracts right?
Moreover, zinc PCA and sodium hyaluronate can be used together without compromising the efficiency of zinc PCA?
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Perry said:@Paprik - what convinces you that Sodium PCA is superior to glycerine as a humectant?
“The water-binding capacity of the sodium salts of lactic acid and PCA are higher than that of glycerin. Treatment of guinea pig footpad corneum with humectant solutions shows that the water held by corneum decreases in the following order: Sodium PCA>sodium lactate>glycerine>sorbitol”
Ref: Handbook of Cosmetic Science and Technology edited by Barel, Paye, Maibach
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Mondonna said:Perry said:@Paprik - what convinces you that Sodium PCA is superior to glycerine as a humectant?
“The water-binding capacity of the sodium salts of lactic acid and PCA are higher than that of glycerin. Treatment of guinea pig footpad corneum with humectant solutions shows that the water held by corneum decreases in the following order: Sodium PCA>sodium lactate>glycerine>sorbitol”
Ref: Handbook of Cosmetic Science and Technology edited by Barel, Paye, Maibach
This study also confirmed that Sodium Lactate and Sodium PCA are better humectants.
From what I remember, glycerin has the lowest molecular weight and the moisturizing effect may persist after washing.
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@Mondonna - I don’t doubt the results you’ve posted but I guess it is a step away from the claim that “glycerin is the superior humectant”. It’s humectancy as measured as a solution on Guinea pig skin. What I’m talking about is using glycerin as a humectant in a skin lotion on human skin. Even when compared to something like Urea as in this study, the best they could say is Sodium PCA was “equally
effective as a similar established product with a different humectant system (urea).”@grapefruit22 - The problem with the study you posted is that it doesn’t demonstrate Sodium Lactate and Sodium PCA are better. What is shows is that if you take a formula that includes 3% glycerin and then you add additional Sodium Lactate or Sodium PCA, then you get better scores using a corneometer. One has to wonder, why didn’t they do the additional test where they just increased the level of Glycerin and see how much additional scoring they would have gotten.
The cosmetic industry is awash is badly designed studies on all kinds of technology. And that is primarily because the studies are done by or funded by motivated researchers. There is no benefit to anyone in verifying that Glycerin is the best humectant for a skin care product. It’s cheap. It’s effective. There is no financial benefit to showing Petrolatum gives anti-wrinkling effects as good or better than active ingredients like ceramides or vitamins or any other ingredient of the day. So, this is why I’m highly skeptical of most any “research” that conflicts with what has been accepted fact in the cosmetic industry for decades. I’m not closed minded, but the studies better be robust.
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Hello formulators! I am unable to make a new post so I am asking under my old post. I would like to add some plant extracts in my niacinamide serum. I just want to add those which doesn’t increase sun sensitivity. I am unable to find information online. If you know any website then please let me know. I am going to share the picture here, if you have information about it, you can educate me. Thanks!
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In this new design you should first chose a category then you can create a new discussion.
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@Abdullah Thank you so much. I will post my query in separate post now.
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