Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Natural dog Shampoo sulfate free!!!

  • gunther

    Member
    January 26, 2019 at 3:57 pm

    Why decyl glucoside? It has high pH. Isn’t CAPB a better and milder option? CAPB and Olefin Sulfonate are available on the DIY market.

    Also, a high glucoside, low CAPB formulation I made (for a human handwash) leaves a sticky afterfeel.
    That doesn’t happen with high CAPB, low glucoside.

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    January 26, 2019 at 6:21 pm

    @Gunther exactly! I add a tiny amount of decyl glucoside to boost the foam but I didn’t know its used as a primary surfactant. It’s however considered quite mild based on zein test.

  • microformulation

    Member
    January 26, 2019 at 11:32 pm

    Both via anecdotal evidence and studies, Decyl Glucoside is hardly non-irritating. https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(17)32539-2/fulltext

  • microformulation

    Member
    January 27, 2019 at 12:38 am

  • markbroussard

    Member
    January 27, 2019 at 2:00 am

    Any ingredient is going to have some subpopulation that will have some sort of sensitivity to it … look at is this way … 98% to 99% of the population don’t have any sensitivity to Decyl Glucoside.

  • microformulation

    Member
    January 27, 2019 at 12:59 pm

    Yes, but in my anecdotal experience, I have seen 5-6 lines in the last 3 years move away from the alkylpolyglucosides. @Belassi has experienced this as well if you followed some of his relevant posts.

  • markbroussard

    Member
    January 27, 2019 at 2:25 pm

    Well, There’s Science and then there’s Anecdotes … The Science says that 98% to 99% of the population do not have any sensitivity to alykylpolyglucosides.

  • microformulation

    Member
    January 27, 2019 at 3:20 pm
    I understand the differences quite well.   
    The issue is simply that the bias against these products is growing. I get approached about once a quarter now from lines that want to respond to the bias and reformulate.
    My key point was to dispute that it is considered “quite mild.” I believe that I have made a great case that this is not necessarily the case.
  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    January 27, 2019 at 9:45 pm

    I personally don’t like glucosides. Especially for hair products (that is why my question was “why decyl glycoside”). The reason why I said it is considered to be mild is a result of zein test according to which it can be classified as mild comparing to other surfactants (such as SLS, SLES). The result of zein test isn’t 100% proof but it is a piece of scientific evidence. I didn’t mean that there are no people (and animals?) who are sensitive to it. I don’t have experience with animal products but my first guess would be CAPB, not decyl glucoside.

  • markbroussard

    Member
    January 27, 2019 at 11:58 pm

    Actually, decyl glucoside ranks a bit milder than CAPB … but I’m sure not appreciably enough to make much of a difference unless someone is predisposed to an contact reaction to either one.

  • markbroussard

    Member
    January 28, 2019 at 12:48 am

    Decyl Glucosdie actually is mild, that what the science proves.  As for companies reformulating … well, who wants “Allergen Of The Year” on your label … that is probably more for marketing purposes than anything.

    This “Allergen Of The Year” competition is quite dangerous … you can see several ingredients that are perfectly fine for 99% of the population fall out of favor based on these kinds of articles.  Look at what happened to parabens.

  • belassi

    Member
    January 28, 2019 at 1:31 am

    Just to be clear, my own opinion is that glucosides are OK in rinse-off products in reasonable concentrations. I can’t abide its use in a leave-on product though. 

  • microformulation

    Member
    January 28, 2019 at 3:52 am

    All good points.

  • em88

    Member
    January 28, 2019 at 8:04 am

    Perry said:

    @Microformulation - I was just wondering what plant could I grow to get Polyquaternium-10.

    It’s a tree from the fam. Polyquaterniumeae.  :smiley:

    @Perry:

    Yes, that would be more simple … The Aloe & Oat Extract … those are for label appeal, just in case your dog can read.

    NThkhig.jpg” alt=””>

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    January 28, 2019 at 9:00 am

    Polyquaternium 10 is made of hydroxyethylcellulose.
    Hydroxyethilcellucose made of cellulose. Cellulose is made of plants. So polyquaternium
    10 is a plant. Plants are natural :)

    Same logic can be used to prove that pizza is a vegetable. Jokes aside, chemophobia is
    evil.

  • oldperry

    Member
    January 28, 2019 at 2:36 pm

    @ngarayeva001 - This is why I contend that everything is natural.  And this will be true until someone can prove the supernatural exists.

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    January 28, 2019 at 8:06 pm

    Agreed :)

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