-
Moisturizing body wash trouble
Hello! I’ve been trying to formulate a “shower cream” for weeks and my end product keeps separating. I’d basically like to make a cleansing shower lotion - a lot like shampoo. I’ve tried increasing cetyl, faster cooling. I suspect the culprit might be Crothix? I adjust ph at the end, before thickener to 5.5-6. One batch didn’t separate, I THINK it was because I overheated the water/oils (it’s all I can think of as being different), it turned into a jelly as soon as I combined, then thinned out overnight, actually ended up being pretty perfect. Two tests after that one failed though. I was wondering if anyone smarter than me can easily spot a problem in my formula? Or if maybe it’s a simpler fix like increasing emulsifier or decreasing surfactants. I ordered hydroxyethyl cellulose to try as a thickener, I’ve seen it can help stabilize emulsions. Xanthan worked okay if I added a lot, but didn’t like the end consistency, and I’ve read that it doesn’t get along with cationic emulsifiers. THANK YOU for any suggestions.
40% distilled water
30% coco glucoside
20% cocamidopropyl betaine4% BTMS 25
1% cetyl alcohol
2% avocado oil
fragrance, Crothix, germall -
12 Replies
-
What is the purpose of this product?
What benefits you want to see and why you want to make such a product?
A simple cleanser with just 4-5% SLES will be a better cleanser and less drying and much less expensive that your product.
Your problem maybe not enough heating or too much surfactants.
-
the oil and water parts of your formulation fundamentally incompatible - while they are efficient surfactants, coco-glucoside and cocamidopropyl betaine are both highly soluble in water, and will destabilise any emulsionif you want to create a foaming cream and incorporate oils into it, your best bet is to use an isethionate/fatty acid system as your primary surfactant; it has several key qualities in common with soap but it’s not actually soap
-
@aliciavr6 I have a similar product for a client, just not with so much glucoside and betaine (rather half). Do you need as much surfactant? Also, if you need more viscosity, try increasing the BTMS 25 and removing Crothix.
-
Bill_Toge said:the oil and water parts of your formulation fundamentally incompatible - while they are efficient surfactants, coco-glucoside and cocamidopropyl betaine are both highly soluble in water, and will destabilise any emulsion
if you want to create a foaming cream and incorporate oils into it, your best bet is to use an isethionate/fatty acid system as your primary surfactant; it has several key qualities in common with soap but it’s not actually soap
Thank you!! I will try sodium cocoyl isethionate, as we use that already in other things and have on hand. I just kind of hate working with it because the powder is so messy! The SCI won’t destabilize the emulsion? or should I skip the emulsifier altogether. I’ll do some tests today! It’ll be nice not to have to adjust the pH then.
-
ketchito said:@aliciavr6 I have a similar product for a client, just not with so much glucoside and betaine (rather half). Do you need as much surfactant? Also, if you need more viscosity, try increasing the BTMS 25 and removing Crothix.
I did some tests yesterday with decreased surfactants, 20% coco gluc and 15% cocamidopropyl - and increased BTMS to 6%… they were starting to separate when I came in today ???? Maybe I’ll try one last one with just 10% of each surfactant.
Thank you!!! -
Have you tried using BTMS-50 instead of 25?
-
magoo said:Have you tried using BTMS-50 instead of 25?
No I haven’t, but I did try to add additional cetyl and cetearyl, so I assumed that wouldn’t work. The only additional ingredient in the 50 is butylene glycol, I don’t know what that is. Would it help stabilize?
-
@Bill_Toge I did a test today with 15% SCI and 10% CAPB. So far so good!!! I’ll know for sure in the morning ???????? Thank you greatly!
-
The SCI in place of the Coco Glucoside worked! I even did a test with our cold conditioning emulsifier (ICE) and that turned out great as well and saves a bit of work. Thank you all, especially @Bill_Toge
-
@aliciavr6 no worries, glad to help!
-
Well, I’m still dealing with this formula months later lol. The SCI version turns almost gelatinous after sitting in a bottle, and is difficult to get out. The texture looks rough, like cottage cheese. It works really well though, it’s very nice to use and lathers up well.
Tried to add some SLSA, and the emulsion breaks again after a few days.BUT I realized my emulsifying wax is cationic while the surfactants are anionic so I’m going to try a different emulsifier (cetearyl alcohol, ceteareth-20) that is non-ionic, and add some cetyl for conditioning/glide/extra emulsification power. ???????? -
@aliciavr6 the type of product you want to make, a creamy body wash, is the only type of formula so far that I have just not been able to successfully make despite my many attempts.
I can do it with a suspending agent like acrylates copolymer, but without that it is separation city every time. If not at room temperature than definitely once it is in the incubator. So i eventually gave up, or rather i settled for using aqua sf-1.i would really like to make a creamy body wash. If you ever figure it out, or if any one else here has a basic but stable formula i could go off of please let me know.
Log in to reply.