-
How can I lower the PH in cold processed soap?
-
There is little to no citations and credentials on internet fb groups when it comes to handmade soap crafting. Again, the reason i came here.
Thank you , bobzchemist, johnB, Belassi, Perry, David and Microformulation for taking the time to respond and explain….
-
Again, I will say that if you seek them out, there are some very knowledgeable people making Soaps who have many years of experience. Granted, you have to wade through a lot of misinformation, but there are some pearls amongst all the swine.
As pointed out, most of us have some Academic knowledge but in Cosmetic Chemists there are many with less practical experience. It is really not a mainstream product for the most part.
-
Just to say one thing: I wasted 6 months of my time trying to lower the pH of natural soap, before I realised that I was trying to achieve the impossible.
-
I learned many years ago to stop using the techniques found on online soapmaking message boards by people who had no credentials, had not studied the cosmetic chemistry involved and who did not work with formulations based on 100%. I chose my own route involving reading old soapmaking books from the 18 and 1900’s by people who had the proper credentials and demonstrated that with facts based on the chemistry involved in making soap. What you are asking about simply cannot be done! Soap made with oils and or fatty acids will have a pH in the range of 9-10. Trying to lower it will take the ability of the high pH substance (alkaline) and reduce it making it less effective in saponifying all of the the oils or fatty acids involved. That might lower the pH slightly but not always measurably and other than choosing to leave some of the oils or fatty acids unsaponified which won’t make a measurable change there is no way to do what you are trying to accomplish without making changes to your ingredients such as adding surfactants.
The natural pH of soap is inappropriate for use on hair. Although it may be able to clean the hair it reeks havoc with the hair’s structure and can cause damage to the hair. Surfactants combined with fatty acids may be a better option and are used in the industry for such a purpose but really are not the what you are seeking to do. Many of the people here have the knowledge about cosmetic chemistry as well as the experience, background and credentials and should be treated with respect. I may have started out as a “soap maker” but for quite a while have been fortunate to be able to learn from many of the people here and ask their advice and pose questions. I am grateful for their replies and trust their observations even when it might be about someone who appears to have the right “street creds” but in their observation does not. I trust what they say and their observations over time have proven them to be quite trustworthy. I may not be a “cosmetic chemist” but I try and take that approach with every project I work on and I have to say because of their help they have been quite successful projects! I will keep doing what I always have done and that is to READ, ASK QUESTIONS, LISTEN and RESEARCH and keep doing this all over again until I get my answers!
-
Microformulation, I belong to many many fb groups. Some with as many as 25,000 members. some are run by people who have very little knowledge and background about the science and chemistry of soap making. In one large group the owner relied on people who “claim” to be making soap for over 30 years. As you mentioned in your earlier response many say they have achieved certain questionable things like lowering the PH of soap or making claims that lye will neutralize or dissipate or fall out of solution in lye heavy soap, but when asked to explain how they cannot. Many parrot what they’ve read somewhere. Many do not know how to decipher fact from fiction or how to read a scholarly article, study or report. fb allows anyone to be whatever they want to be especially if they have the gift of being able to sell. I’ve weeded through as many as I can only to find out that unless they understand chemistry, have some background in chemistry most do not know. they grandstand to appear knowledgeable. When asked specific questions they avoid answering, dance around the answer or the truth comes out that they don not know what they are talking about.
I have a medical background of over 25 years. I understand the importance of citations, scholarly articles, studies and scientific evidence. I tend to cut to the chase when I need sound and factual information. Again, the reason for my coming here. I just don’t have the patience for non-sense, double talk or misinformation which I see a lot of in fb groups. In my field of work misinformation and mistakes can cause someone their life.
I am fairly new to making handmade soaps but my approach to learning something new, especially when there is a science to it is the same as my approach to researching something medical related.
I value the knowledge from scholars. There’s usually no messing around.
Belassi, thank you for sharing this with me. I respect and appreciate the fact that if someone like you, a cosmetic chemist, can’t achieve lowering the PH of a handmade natural soap along with the all the information presented in this thread, then it cannot be done, not without the assistance of additives which I am not comfortable working with. There is no need for me to continue searching or to experiment.
-
It wasn’t just citric acid by the way. I have to tell myself to avoid getting fixated on things. I also experimented with a variety of other things to “improve” cold process soap. Such as, cocamide MEA. Higher foaming, I thought. And yes, a bit; but at the expense of having a waxy texture which wasn’t very pleasant. In the end I concluded that I should take the step of learning how synthetic surfactants work, and leave the soap alone, it’s as good as it can be.
-
Hi all
From above discussion, I got to know that pH of soap is not possible below 9-10. As a doctor, I know the fact alkaline pH is not good for skin. Alkaline property of soaps increase many health risks including fungal infections, eczema and psoriasis.
There are for formulations in market having very low pH (like intimate wash having lactic acid) but that are too acidic (pH 1.5).
My question here to experts in chemistry is that - “Can any formulation be prepared which is slightly acidic (pH 6-7 at par with pH of skin) with good cleansing property ?” (good for skin and hairs) -
Docaashu said:…
My question here to experts in chemistry is that - “Can any formulation be prepared which is slightly acidic (pH 6-7 at par with pH of skin) with good cleansing property ?” (good for skin and hairs)Yes, it can and it’s done on a regular basis, just not with soaps in sensu stricto but with syndets (which aren’t often “synthetic” anymore but products of fermentation or enzymatic reactions and based on renewable resources).
-
@Docaashu, are you able to cite scientific literature indicating that “As a doctor, I know the fact alkaline pH is not good for skin. Alkaline property of soaps increase many health risks including fungal infections, eczema and psoriasis”?
-
I personally don’t like soap. I stopped using it probably 15 years ago. I would be happy to find an evidence that soap has negative impact on skin to substantiate my bias but I couldn’t find anything (I really tried). I however know cases when people had skin irritation caused by shaving creams based on modern surfactants (probably because of preservatives not SLES) and could only get rid of it after changing that to classic NaOH/KOH shaving soap (that is not preserved). So, the soap isn’t bad because it’s objectively harmful, it’s bad because it’s not aesthetically pleasing.
Log in to reply.