Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Advanced Questions HLB: calculate or not to calculate?

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  • HLB: calculate or not to calculate?

    Posted by ngarayeva001 on January 28, 2019 at 9:22 am

    Hello all!

    There are
    controversial opinions about HLB system. Some say it’s outdated, only works for
    non-ionic emulsifiers and doesn’t respond to questions such as how much
    emulsifier to use, thus it makes no sense to use it.

    Others say it
    is an important starting point and should be applied.

    I guess I have
    good “intuition” and none of my emulsions has ever separated (within one month at
    least, excluding experiments where I wanted to establish a point where it separates) no matter if I calculated HLB or not.

    I understand
    that it can be ignored when using commercial emulsifiers’ blends but what about
    the situations where the formulator is trying to create a custom blend of
    non-ionic emulsifiers (Say polysorbates and liquid low HLB emulsifier)?

    Is there a
    reason to apply HLB system or not? All opinions are appreciated.

    Thank you in
    advance.

    Narmina

    ngarayeva001 replied 5 years, 3 months ago 3 Members · 3 Replies
  • 3 Replies
  • Doreen

    Member
    January 28, 2019 at 11:15 am

    The times I’ve used a HLB calculator I can count on one hand. It isn’t very useful to me.

  • jeremien

    Member
    January 28, 2019 at 11:21 am

    Emulsion science is all about amphiphilicity and how surfactant
    behaves at the interface. HLB is very simple system that give a number to the surfactant
    and not to the system, without taking into account interaction with other
    ingredients of the formulation that interfere with interface such as alcohols,
    electrolytes, polarity of the disperse and continuous phase, and phase behavior
    components such as composition and temperature (that last condition explain why
    HLB fails for ethoxylated surfactants)… that why it will only give partial
    indication on the selection of the surfactant, and in many case it fails … This
    will be the case if you only calculate the required HLB and match it with the
    HLB of the surfactant, nevertheless, there is experimental method to determine
    the required HLB that are maybe more accurate. Calculating is a good starting
    point when you have no idea. 

    We can start a new study to have a statistical result
    to know what give better results HLB or intuition. Since I believe in science, I
    believe HLB, even as simple it is, there is science in the concept.  I also believe that luckily intuition (you may
    refer by intuition to experience?) do a good job because nowadays they is very
    great and efficient surfactants system on the market

    Other concept take into account more interaction of the system,  that
    is the case of the HLD (Hydrophilic Lipophilic Difference) developed by Salager
    and PIT (for ethoxylated surfactants) developed by Kunieda. Unfortunately the application
    of these concepts is more complex, and discourages many formulators in their
    daily work.

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    January 28, 2019 at 2:01 pm

    I have been formulating with HLB in mind for the first year (after I just started). Then I was told by more experienced people who reviewed my formula that adding glyceryl oleate to bring HLB of the system (glyceryl stearate/PEG-100 stearate that has HLB of 11.5) down to 7-8 (which is HLB of most veg oils) is a bit overkill. But I still see advices of professionals on this forum to calculate HLB.

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