Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Hair dye base becomes thin. why??????

  • Hair dye base becomes thin. why??????

    Posted by aqeel4uk on November 24, 2014 at 8:25 am
    Actually in my first formulation of hair dye I use Cetostearyl(10%), SLS(0.75%), Coconut Oil and White Oil(1+1%), (Sodium Sulfite(0.5)(antioxidant)  in the Cream/Base +Active ingredients. The cream was normal thick. But the problem was that uper layer of cream becomes black in one day remain open to cool down after adition of active color ingredients and MEA. So I made some changes with Cetostearyl(7%), GMS(1%)for shining, Stearic Acid(3)for stability, SLS(0.75%), Coconut Oil and White Oil(1+1%), (Sodium Sulfite(0.5)(antioxidant) in the Cream/Base. Now the cream was good thick but a little thin after MEA and does not become black in one day but in 2/3 days. Now with the addition of Ceteareth-20(1%) Cream is more stable in color but more thinning. I also tried Oleic Acid (2%) but it is completly useless.
    I saw some transparent liquid hair dyes(like Revlon) a thin pourable liquid in the bottle(not in tube) but when mix with the oxidizing developer cream it becomes very thick non drip mixture. Which is very good for application.
    1- Any helpful suggestions to make cream more Stable, Shiny and Thick for hair dye?
    2- Any helpful suggestions for transparent liquid hair dye like Revlon. Which is thin pourable liquid packed in bottle but non drip after mixing with developer cream.
    Bureta14 replied 8 months ago 4 Members · 8 Replies
  • 8 Replies
  • RawMaterialGirl

    November 29, 2014 at 1:31 am

    A strong grasp of organic chemistry will help you solve all of your questions.

    Your cream is becoming black because the dyes are oxidizing; any time you have oxidative dyes and they are exposed to air, you will get oxidation and it will turn black.

    As far as the thinning goes, oxidative dyes can affect the viscosity of your cream, but your formula is really vague, and it sounds like you need a more stable base.

    Please don’t take this the wrong way, but you’ve advertised yourself as a manufacturer of hair dye products, and your other questions on Chemists Corner indicate that you are not experienced in hair color chemistry (or chemistry) at all. Hair color chemistry isn’t like making a regular cosmetic product; its reactive chemistry and it can be very dangerous to the end consumer if you don’t know what you’re doing. Hair color chemists are typically organic chemists that can spend years training. A course in organic chemistry will help you get started, and searching any information online about the types of alkalizers and how to properly balance dyes should give you a good direction.

    Good luck!

  • aqeel4uk

    November 29, 2014 at 1:27 pm

    Yes, you are right that I am not an experienced. Actually we are using a perfect and stable formulation of Black and Brown cream hair dyes and it’s a regular work.

    But now I am learning and researching about more shades and types of hair dyes like liquid, gel, powder and Shampoo hair dyes and 1to5 minute(quick) hair dye as well,
    I wish anyone could help me.
  • RawMaterialGirl

    November 29, 2014 at 3:13 pm

    If you have access to the Journal of Cosmetic Science, there are articles over the years about hair color.

    If you dont have anyone to mentor you, I would look at current products on the market and see what their ingredients are. Go through each one and look up what they do. You’ll see the active in 5-minute hair color.

    Also see if the suppliers of your dyes can offer training.

  • Bill_Toge

    November 29, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    the best way to stop oxidative dyes from darkening is to keep their contact with air to an absolute minimum; this is why these products are always sold in tubes or sachets (i.e. airtight containers)

    whenever we manufactured the bulk liquids for oxidative dyes we always covered the surface with a plastic film to stop them darkening

    as for the product which thickens when mixed, it sounds like the developer (pH 2-3) contains a peroxide-stable carbomer or similar polymer which is neutralised and thickens when the dye (pH ~10) is mixed with it

  • aqeel4uk

    November 30, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    Thanks Bill, I will try this peroxide-stable carbomer, it sounds good.

    RawMaterialGirl, I have no access to journal of cosmetic science. I request you to have a look for 5-minute speedy hair color.
  • RawMaterialGirl

    November 30, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    Hi Aqeel,

    All you have to do is use Google to search “journal of cosmetic science” and then pertinent terms like “hair dye” “monoethanolamine”, etc. papers will come up even if you can’t access http://www.scconline.org.

    Just look for five minute color ingredients on the Internet (just for men, etc). You should be able to figure out which ingredient is for the progressive dying.

    You will have to research the ingredient anyway if you pdon’t know how to use it, and this will be more valuable than just telling you the answer - I spent years training in hair color and this is the most effective way to learn and understand.

  • aqeel4uk

    December 1, 2014 at 11:35 am

    This is true and valuable RawMaterialGirl. Bye the way I am not easy to say you RawMaterialGirl, What should I say you?

    Let’s come to the point. It’s been more than a year in searching, And now I am a little bit able to understand the Hair dye science like oxidation, color lift, color deposit, dye ingredients(Ppd,Pap,Oap,Map,Rcn,Aht,1-Nap), PH, stability, Shades etc.
    Saw few of things for 5 minute hair dye like O-phathalaldehyde, L-Arginine etc but it doesnt work. Now I want someone to share each other experience, Although I am not a fully experienced but I think I can share many other things and a little bit experience about permanent hair coloring. I want to see how people are working in hair dyes.
    (sorry for poor English).
    Hope to hear you soon positively.
    • Bureta14

      September 18, 2023 at 9:01 am

      Hi!, just adding some hints:

      1. Your chassis of the cream needs more emulsifiers to emulsify that qty of oil in your formula (try to use Cetearyl alcohol + Glyceryl Stearate) and SLES as surfactant or Oleic acid as surfactant/cleansing agent

      2. Oleic acid did not work if you did not increase the MEA to saponify it. The formula needs MEA to saponify the oleic acid and also for the development of the color (to swell the hair fiber).

      3. During the production in the plant for Liquid Hair Dyes, it is added Nitrogen before closing the bottle with the product, so you need to add Nitrogen to your lab samples as well, otherwise it will completely oxidize over time.

      4. Croda Inc. has some starting point formulas for hair dyes in cream and liquid. I think you could use them as a reference. I used Promidium CO in a liquid hair dye; and formulated a cream hair dye based on their starting point formulations.

      5. If you have any issue with the mixture viscosity, try to add Volares FL to the developer, so it will thicken when mixed with the colorant

      • This reply was modified 8 months ago by  Bureta14.

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