MemberJune 10, 2017 at 12:34 am
If the scientific article is accurate in its statement of concentration, then it should not be too difficult to formulate an appropriate dilution of hyaluronic acid. Obviously taking care to get the molecular weight correct. You could try different molecular weights of HA perhaps. Then you need slip. Perhaps a combination of gums and … ?
MemberJune 10, 2017 at 4:06 am
Ok so about Essential oils Mellissa is wonderful at helping with vaginal irritations… Mentha Piperita 1% dilution in EO talk in carrier oil is 5-6 drops per 30ml =1oz. 2% 10-12 you get the picture? I would say 2% would be safely in scope. And it is a vasodilator and is used to plump lips and is a hot and cool oil. Add to Aloe Vera gel and it is wonderful.
I use it. Add Stevia 3% by weight and you have your edible tingley pleasure oil. Then choose a warm EO, for him and you have bang! Stay away from mineral or veg oil it equals unhappy vajay-jay!!
Chow HeatherB that will be $180.00 (for group therapy Lol pun intended)
Yes I am a aroma therapy student as well as formulator through aroma head UV it is nationally recognized US and UK I have the Chem class then done. I want to savor it!
MemberJune 12, 2017 at 2:39 pm
The current formulation I made and put in the 40°C oven over the weekend. It separated! Should I increase the natrosol percentage to keep this homogeneous? Any suggestions?
55%- natrosol HHR( this is all I have at the moment. ordering other variations)
(cyclopentasiloxane/peg/ppg 20/15 dimethicone) Botanisil CD-90—12%
phenoxyethanol - 1.00%
MemberJune 12, 2017 at 2:58 pm
Forgot the water in the previous post.
55%- natrosol HHR(this is all I have at the moment. ordering other variations)
(cyclopentasiloxane/peg/ppg 20/15 dimethicone) Botanisil CD-90—12%
phenoxyethanol - 1.00%
MemberJune 12, 2017 at 2:59 pm
I am unsurprised. Silicones are generally extremely problematic to formulate - especially in aqueous media.
Perhaps you might like to consider silicone surfactants without silicone oils present. There are several grades available.
I cannot recommend one against another as DC have changed their nomenclature system since I was active in formulation work.
Edit: The name of the surfactant was DC193
MemberJune 12, 2017 at 5:41 pm
I’m somewhat doubtful about being able to do anything with the mix you are using.
I’ve never been a fan of silicones in cosmetic products - caused me more problems than they ever solved.
I don’t understand the formulation you have quoted. It should total 100 - it doesn’t! If it really contained 55% of Natrosol HHR it would most likely be a hard solid block.
MemberJune 12, 2017 at 6:30 pm
I would have thought that cyclopentasiloxane would be incompatible with a whole lot of sex products.
MemberJune 12, 2017 at 6:41 pm
Sorry for the typos:
Water - 32%
Natrosol 250 HHR - 0.55%
PG - 42%
(cyclopentasiloxane/peg/ppg 20/15 dimethicone) Botanisil CD-90 - 12%
cyclopentasiloxane - 12.5%
Phenoxyethanol - 1%
MemberJune 12, 2017 at 7:53 pm
It is a silicone, and a very thin one at that - I would have thought it incompatible with products made of silicone rubber.
MemberJune 13, 2017 at 2:50 pm
For a different approach to this, may I suggest a plant derived viscosifier/ slipperiness enhancer - similar in properties to hyaluronic acid.
The material is tamarind gum. A cosmetic/pharma grade is sold under the name Xilogel from Indena http://www.indena.com/products/xilogel/
It could be used for wholly or partially replacing Natrosol (or whatever you decide to go with) and offers much improved and better sensorial properties.
You will also be able to show your boss something competely different and perhaps move her away from her apparent fixation on using silicones.
MemberJune 13, 2017 at 8:08 pm
Wow. First of all, on the issue of trying to formulate products that will “stimulate arousal” for females, it’s not really a “vaginal” issue, but rather a “clitoris” and “labia” issue… and what will work for females is similar to what would work for males in the “perineum” area. What you want to do is to increase circulation and dilate blood vessels. The nerves in the vaginal cavity are totally different and you don’t need to go there for this project. The reason why Viagra and Cialis work is because they dilate blood vessels and increase circulation. It was originally being research & developed as a heart medication, and they discovered it has an unintentional, powerful, and
Strangely I don’t see how this is the category of “cosmetic”, but I suppose that category is getting broader these days with Botox, Restylane, etc.
As far as menthol and capsaicin, I would stay away from those. Capsaicin will produce a “heating up” feeling, but that’s not necessarily the kind of stimulation you want, because it’s also a vasoconstrictor, so it can actually end up having an astringent effect of continually used in the same area. Menthol will dilate, but has other properties that can dry out skin, especially in that delicate area. You should actually stay away from all essential and aromatic oils because they can end up irritating long before they have any effective “stimulating” effect.
Have you researched Gingko Biloba? There are some plant based extracts that are not “aromatic” and don’t have a high potential for irritation, but can really open up the blood vessels. I have heard it’s a natural alternative to Viagra, but certainly much less effective; and some claims have been more in the area of improving “cognitive clarity”.
As far as oils, DO NOT use any vegetable based oils, or any fatty acids rather, because it can imbalance that area, and each person’s biochemistry is different. Although oils are naturally produced and excreted in that area, there is a lot more going on, with much more complicated substances that go along with it, including a very delicate balance of live bacterias… this can all be imbalanced and lead to infections without proper chemical formulations (like adding probiotics). I think that would get way to complicated for this project, so I would recommend you just stick with a benign combination of lubricants/slipping agents like propylene or butylene glycol or the wide variety of silicones/siloxanes that are available.
Good luck… that’s an interesting venture!
MemberJune 13, 2017 at 8:51 pm
Re: Comments on Capsaicin
MemberJune 13, 2017 at 10:33 pm
Interesting study on how it affects rats… if only rats and humans had the same system, we’d learn so much more.
And then they extrapolate that to humans, and concluded that it may have an analgesic effect on the skin… so I guess there are some people that didn’t do research prior to their formulating ventures, or they just think it will improve their sex life to be a little numbed up…. I guess if you like rough sex then Capsaicin should be a good prophylactic to the after-soreness.
MemberJune 13, 2017 at 10:54 pm
If you’re inclined to put Menthol, Capsaicin or other stimulants or warming agents on your clitoris, i suspect you also like your sex a bit on the rough side … LOL!
MemberJune 13, 2017 at 11:02 pm
Here’s a couple more (on humans)
MemberJune 14, 2017 at 6:12 pm
I am completely overwhelmed with all the information here!
So basically the whole process is to open up blood vessels to allow more blood in the clitoris. Is there anything that will just cause more sensitivity? Is widening the blood vessels is the main way the clitoris becomes more sensitive during sexual activity?
MemberJune 14, 2017 at 6:43 pm
There are two effects:
(1) Using vasodilators which will increase the blood flow.
Viagra works by dramatically enhancing blood flow, and as I previously noted, works for both men and women. The issue with decreased sensitivity in the clitoris could be twofold … reduced blood flow and/or nerve ending with diminished sensitivity.
An ingredient like Capsaicin increases blood flow and also creates a warming effect or enhanced “sensation”
Cooling agents like Menthyl Lactate, Menthol and to a lesser extent Peppermint Oil evaporate rapidly “tricking” the nerve endings into feeling an enhanced sensation.
So, you’re trying to do two things: (1) Enhance blood flow, and (2) Create an enhanced sensation/sensitivity with a cooling agent.
MemberJune 14, 2017 at 10:09 pm
I have a working formulation for this water/silicone hybrid that has been on stability (40°C and 55°C) for close to a week with no separation. Of course, I don’t think I am out of the woods but for me I am jumping for joy. A few of my last formulations didn’t fair well at either temperature. I am waiting for chemicals to come in and I will be doing a pilot batch (20kg) in the week or so. I am super excited and nervous. The compounding here is somewhat archaic and I am anticipating some “jimmy-rigging” to get this down. Feel like alchemist or a bootlegger.
This is my first formulation!!!
MemberJune 15, 2017 at 2:53 am
Congratulations on your success, @Chemist5000
I am quite puzzled … why on Earth would you make a 20 Kg batch of a “product” that has only passed one week of stability testing and has not been Preservative Challenge Tested and will most likely fall under an FDA 510K classification as, per your ingredients list, your product is clearly a personal lubricant intended to used within the vagina.
MemberJune 15, 2017 at 7:13 am
Cooling agents like Menthyl Lactate, Menthol and to a lesser extent
Peppermint Oil evaporate rapidly “tricking” the nerve endings into
feeling an enhanced sensation.
That is an incorrect explanation of how these cooling agents function.
The cooling activity mechanism is quite well explained in http://www.leffingwell.com/cooler_than_menthol.htm
I’m becoming very confused by this thread. Are we looking at lubricants or sexual stimulants? There seems to be two distinct subjects which are being conflated.
MemberJune 15, 2017 at 10:12 am
@johnb: An excerpt from the article you cited:
Physiology of Cooling from materials such as menthol
The action of menthol and similar coolant compounds on “thermoreceptors” provides the “cool” sensation via cold receptors. In the case of menthol and certain other coolant compounds one can also get a “hot” or stinging “pain” sensation. Menthol can act at high concentrations in much the same way as capsaicin to produce a hot sensation, but in this case, it stimulates the fibers that register both cold temperatures as well as those that respond to warmth.
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