Does NACL do any benefit in liquid laundry detergent?

Tagged: liquid-laundry-detergent, nacl

General

Does NACL do any benefit in liquid laundry detergent?

Posted by Abdullah on November 9, 2022 at 10:40 am

This is my liquid laundry detergent formula.

Formula

SLS 3.8% active

LABSA 1.5% active

Lauryl glucoside 3.5% active

EDTA 1% or citric acid 1-3%

CMC 0.5%

Water

pH 10

if i add 5≥ NACL in this formula, will it do any benefit or harm to the cleaning effect of this detergent?

Abdullah replied 2 years, 1 month ago 6 Members · 15 Replies
- liquid-laundry-detergent
- nacl
15 Replies

ketchito

Member
November 9, 2022 at 11:10 am

@Abdullah I’ve never seen a formula with more than 2% of NaCl. While electrolytes increase the detergency of anionic surfactants, there is a salt curve that dictates how much salt your system can resist, and for that you need to do the tests. Also, since you also have LABSA, don’t forget to put a sample in the fridge.
Abdullah

Member
November 9, 2022 at 2:51 pm

ketchito said:

@Abdullah I’ve never seen a formula with more than 2% of NaCl. While electrolytes increase the detergency of anionic surfactants, there is a salt curve that dictates how much salt your system can resist, and for that you need to do the tests. Also, since you also have LABSA, don’t forget to put a sample in the fridge.

Thanks

What is the problem with LABSA and why do i need to test it in fridge if i can ask?
Fekher

Member
November 9, 2022 at 5:41 pm

@Abdullah most important function of Na CL is thickner in detergent, I made a post for Na Cl I guess it is interesting for professional take a look.
Abdullah

Member
November 10, 2022 at 1:43 am

Fekher said:

@Abdullah most important function of Na CL is thickner in detergent, I made a post for Na Cl I guess it is interesting for professional take a look.

Fekher said:

@Abdullah most important function of Na CL is thickner in detergent, I made a post for Na Cl I guess it is interesting for professional take a look.

My purpose was also to increase viscosity but even with up to 5% NACL in this formula, viscosity didn’t change. Do you have any idea why?
ozgirl

Member
November 10, 2022 at 1:56 am

What would be the be benefit of adding more than required to increase viscosity as you run the risk of hitting the other side of the salt curve.

The best way to increase viscosity would be to increase the surfactant actives.

Too much salt might also cause corrosion of metals in the washing machine.
Abdullah

Member
November 10, 2022 at 2:06 am

ozgirl said:

What would be the be benefit of adding more than required to increase viscosity as you run the risk of hitting the other side of the salt curve.

The best way to increase viscosity would be to increase the surfactant actives.

Too much salt might also cause corrosion of metals in the washing machine.

I didn’t know how much NACL wa required so i started adding in increments of 0.5% but up to 5% viscosity didn’t change at all.
Graillotion

Member
November 10, 2022 at 2:33 am

The salt curve is a bell curve…once you exceed optimum…then you lose viscosity.

Generally it is done in small increments…say .1% variations. I would start with 1%..and work up and down from there…at the .1% variations. Hehehe….and you can fill a thimble with what I know about this topic…hehehe.
Abdullah

Member
November 10, 2022 at 5:57 am

Graillotion said:

The salt curve is a bell curve…once you exceed optimum…then you lose viscosity.

Generally it is done in small increments…say .1% variations. I would start with 1%..and work up and down from there…at the .1% variations. Hehehe….and you can fill a thimble with what I know about this topic…hehehe.

The problem is didn’t get any viscosity at all.

I will add it in smaller increments next time and see what happens.
ketchito

Member
November 10, 2022 at 11:16 am

Abdullah said:

ketchito said:

@Abdullah I’ve never seen a formula with more than 2% of NaCl. While electrolytes increase the detergency of anionic surfactants, there is a salt curve that dictates how much salt your system can resist, and for that you need to do the tests. Also, since you also have LABSA, don’t forget to put a sample in the fridge.

Thanks

What is the problem with LABSA and why do i need to test it in fridge if i can ask?

@Abdullah LABSA is more or less hydrophobic (if you compare it to regular anionics, like SLES). When you add salt, there is a point in which it just salts out. You can accelerate the process if you put it in the fridge. If you don’t see turbidity let’s say for a month, you’re fine…but if there’s a problem, you’ll see turbidity even after one day, and eventually, the turbidity will turn into a precipitate that will go to the bottom. One option to improve this is neutralizing with TEA instead of NaOH.
ketchito

Member
November 10, 2022 at 11:18 am

Abdullah said:

Graillotion said:

The salt curve is a bell curve…once you exceed optimum…then you lose viscosity.

Generally it is done in small increments…say .1% variations. I would start with 1%..and work up and down from there…at the .1% variations. Hehehe….and you can fill a thimble with what I know about this topic…hehehe.

The problem is didn’t get any viscosity at all.

I will add it in smaller increments next time and see what happens.

@Abdullah Then your system is not too sensitive to salt. I believe your glucoside might have to do with it. I’d reduce the glucoside and increase one of the anionics. You could also add some Betaine to shift the salt curve, so you use less salt to hit a peak.
Abdullah

Member
November 10, 2022 at 12:38 pm

ketchito said:

Abdullah said:

ketchito said:

@Abdullah I’ve never seen a formula with more than 2% of NaCl. While electrolytes increase the detergency of anionic surfactants, there is a salt curve that dictates how much salt your system can resist, and for that you need to do the tests. Also, since you also have LABSA, don’t forget to put a sample in the fridge.

Thanks

What is the problem with LABSA and why do i need to test it in fridge if i can ask?

@Abdullah LABSA is more or less hydrophobic (if you compare it to regular anionics, like SLES). When you add salt, there is a point in which it just salts out. You can accelerate the process if you put it in the fridge. If you don’t see turbidity let’s say for a month, you’re fine…but if there’s a problem, you’ll see turbidity even after one day, and eventually, the turbidity will turn into a precipitate that will go to the bottom. One option to improve this is neutralizing with TEA instead of NaOH.

That actually happened.
My sample with 5% NACL precipitated. So that precipitation is from too much NACL. Correct?
evchem2

Member
November 10, 2022 at 2:44 pm

Level of surfactants is low, is this for hand washing clothes? You’ll need more surfactant if you want to salt thicken.

What grade (molecular weight) CMC are you using, and is it for antiredepostion? you could use a higher molecular weight to thicken your fomrulation, but I don’t know what impact (if any) that would have on washing performance
Fekher

Member
November 10, 2022 at 7:21 pm

@Abdullah the general idea is what @ketchito said about your system is not too sensitive to salt but what I suggest is to add some CAPB and CDEA then delating glucoside. 5% of slat is too much I suggest to start with 0.5% with path 0.1%.
Abdullah

Member
November 11, 2022 at 1:27 am

evchem2 said:

Level of surfactants is low, is this for hand washing clothes? You’ll need more surfactant if you want to salt thicken.

What grade (molecular weight) CMC are you using, and is it for antiredepostion? you could use a higher molecular weight to thicken your fomrulation, but I don’t know what impact (if any) that would have on washing performance

It is bfor both hand and machine washing.

I do t know about about the molecular weight of CMC.

Yes it is for anti redeposition.
Abdullah

Member
November 11, 2022 at 1:30 am

Fekher said:

@Abdullah the general idea is what @ketchito said about your system is not too sensitive to salt but what I suggest is to add some CAPB and CDEA then delating glucoside. 5% of slat is too much I suggest to start with 0.5% with path 0.1%.

I did make a sample with 4% SLES and 5% NACL increased it’s viscosity enough.
That is why i used NACL in this formula too as SLS is more sensitive to NACL than SLES in theory.