Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Hair Does cationic polymer help deposition of bad things like CMIT MIT from Shampoo?

  • Does cationic polymer help deposition of bad things like CMIT MIT from Shampoo?

    Posted by abdullah on February 9, 2022 at 2:55 am

    Cationic polymers from Shampoo help and increase the deposition of ingredients like Piroctone olamine and zinc pyrithione which is good thing.

    will it increase the deposition and retention of bad thing like CMIT MIT too? 
    If not, why not? 
    How does polymers choose what should it help deposit and what not? 
    abdullah replied 2 years ago 3 Members · 8 Replies
  • 8 Replies
  • chemicalmatt

    Member
    February 11, 2022 at 4:08 pm

    I do not think CMIT/MIT will deposit, especially at 10ppm. Polyquats must form coacervates with the surfactants and those coacervates must bring with them only whatever they can associate with, dimethicone being the most dependable.  

  • abdullah

    Member
    February 11, 2022 at 4:25 pm

    I do not think CMIT/MIT will deposit, especially at 10ppm. Polyquats must form coacervates with the surfactants and those coacervates must bring with them only whatever they can associate with, dimethicone being the most dependable.  

    Thanks for sharing your opinion.

    Yes 10ppm is very small amount but my concern was this

    Anti dandruff ingredient like Piroctone olamine for example is used up to 1% with a polymer in shampoo and 0.1-0.3% in a leave on product. So it looks like from this 1% in shampoo at least 0.1-0.3% is deposited with the help of polymer.

    Now if we consider 10ppm CMIT instead of 1% Piroctone olamine, if 1-3 ppm CMIT gets deposited, it would not be a good thing because we don’t want any amount of that. 

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    February 12, 2022 at 11:33 am

    Suggest 5 ppm for the CMIT/MIT product.  Might check stability - CMIT is unstable with ZPT, another hydoxamic acid-based active.   Not aware of data for piroctone.

  • abdullah

    Member
    February 12, 2022 at 3:38 pm

    PhilGeis said:

    Suggest 5 ppm for the CMIT/MIT product.  Might check stability - CMIT is unstable with ZPT, another hydoxamic acid-based active.   Not aware of data for piroctone.

    Thanks for suggestion. 
    I am currently using 3ppm CMIT MIT+100ppm formalin+ 1000ppm tetrasodium EDTA in cleansing products. 
    I am not using zpt or Piroctone olamine is cleaning product.

    My concern was if guar hptc deposits CMIT in hair too the same way as it deposits zpt and Piroctone olamine from Shampoo.
    Any comments on this issue?

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    February 12, 2022 at 7:25 pm

    CMIT aq solubility is much greater than those - I’d not worry

  • abdullah

    Member
    February 12, 2022 at 10:07 pm

    PhilGeis said:

    CMIT aq solubility is much greater than those - I’d not worry

    That is good.
    Thanks

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    February 13, 2022 at 11:37 am

    and it is not “bad”

  • abdullah

    Member
    February 13, 2022 at 11:44 am

    PhilGeis said:

    and it is not “bad”

    I mean it is bad if it was deposited in hair by polymers. Isn’t it?

    If it doesn’t deposit then it is not bad as you say. 

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