Dmdm hydantoin and Phenoxyethenol Sa

Formulating

Dmdm hydantoin and Phenoxyethenol Sa

Posted by Waleed636 on November 9, 2019 at 8:29 am

Hello everyone
Today i iad a weird experience
I use Dmdmh with edta as preservative in my Alpha arbutin serum
Today i thought to pair it with phenoxyethenol sa by Makingcosmetics to make preservation system more powerful
First i added edta at 0.2 in water
I(always add preservative first)
Then i added Phenoxyethenol sa
As soon as i add phenoxyethenol there is like reaction in water very tiny bubbles like micro bubbles and there is Mold like floating thing on top of water and solution is clear
But if i i don’t add Edta and dmdm and only add phenoxyethenol the solution is milky and there is no floating thing in water
I wanna know if its incompatibility issue or something
Suggestions appreciated
Thankyou

Waleed636 replied 5 years, 3 months ago 7 Members · 14 Replies
14 Replies

Waleed636

Member
November 9, 2019 at 1:34 pm

@MarkBroussard you are needed here
OldPerry

Professional Chemist / Formulator
November 9, 2019 at 2:58 pm

I’m not sure I understand. When you say “as soon as I add phenoxyethanol…” does that mean like immediately? Because you are not going to see mold grow immediately like that.

You’ll also need to list all the ingredients in your formula. There is some reaction going on but without all the ingredients there is no way to really know.
Waleed636

Member
November 9, 2019 at 9:37 pm

@Perry
Its
2% Alpha arbutin
1% Hyaluronic Acid
2% Glycerine
0.2% Disodium Edta
0.5% Dmdmh
0.75% phenoxyethenol Sa (By Makingcosmetics) Blend of Caprylyl gltcol phenomenal and sorbic acid
And this is happening at the start
There is only Edta and Dmdm in water and when Phenoxyethenol is added Mold appears
ngarayeva001

Member
November 9, 2019 at 9:51 pm

That preservative(phenoxy SA) is the worst of all I have ever had. I am not talking about it’s efficacy but the way it messes with overall formula. If you are ordering from makingcosmetics, get Paraben DU also known as Germaben II. There’s also Germall plus that is great for surfactants.
Aziz

Member
November 10, 2019 at 4:56 am

ngarayeva001 said:

That preservative(phenoxy SA) is the worst of all I have ever had. I am not talking about it’s efficacy but the way it messes with overall formula. If you are ordering from makingcosmetics, get Paraben DU also known as Germaben II. There’s also Germall plus that is great for surfactants.

Hi , is DM DM hydantoin and MPS are compatible to use for better coverage on shampo and conditioners ?
NVaughn

Member
November 11, 2019 at 7:20 am

ngarayeva001 said:

That preservative(phenoxy SA) is the worst of all I have ever had. I am not talking about it’s efficacy but the way it messes with overall formula. If you are ordering from makingcosmetics, get Paraben DU also known as Germaben II. There’s also Germall plus that is great for surfactants.

I just had a cold process emulsion fail using Caprylyl Glycol (and) Phenoxyethanol (and) Hexylene Glycol. First one in two years. Next time I’ll add post post emulsion. I sorta stupidly believed a guideline that I suspected was not going to work and added it before combining the phases.
EVchem

Member
November 11, 2019 at 1:53 pm

Didn’t fully read these to be honest but based off the abstracts it looks like sorbic acid can degrade in the presence of EDTA, especially at a pH of ~5. Even the packaging, or in this case mixing vessel’s material could contribute. Maybe this is what you are seeing?

“Stability of sorbates in the presence of EDTA: Effect of pH, packaging material and sequestrant level“

“Studies of the effect of ethylene diamine tetraacetic acid (EDTA) on sorbic acid degradation“
Waleed636

Member
November 11, 2019 at 2:33 pm

So i played with preservatives today
Added edta to water And added blend of Phenoxyethenol+Caprylyl glycol+Sorbic acid and added Dmdm and there was the Mold type substance on top of water

Then i tried pure phenoxyethenol edta and dmdm and there was no mold solution was clear
Considering Sorbic acid is recommended to pair with edta
The culprit here seems to be Caprylyl glycol
Caprylyl glycol seems to be not compatible with edta

Do tell me what you guys think
OldPerry

Professional Chemist / Formulator
November 11, 2019 at 3:24 pm

There is no reason I can think of that Caprylyl glycol wouldn’t be compatible with EDTA.

I still don’t know what you mean by “mold substance”. What does it look like?
Waleed636

Member
November 11, 2019 at 7:37 pm

Perry said:

There is no reason I can think of that Caprylyl glycol wouldn’t be compatible with EDTA.

I still don’t know what you mean by “mold substance”. What does it look like?

I will do some tests again tomorrow
I have Potassium sorbate will try to mix with edta
Yes perry you are right seems weird to me too
I will post a picture tomorrow
Thankyou for your response everyone
EVchem

Member
November 12, 2019 at 8:01 pm

Waleed636 said:

So i played with preservatives today
Added edta to water And added blend of Phenoxyethenol+Caprylyl glycol+Sorbic acid and added Dmdm and there was the Mold type substance on top of water

Then i tried pure phenoxyethenol edta and dmdm and there was no mold solution was clear
Considering Sorbic acid is recommended to pair with edta
The culprit here seems to be Caprylyl glycol
Caprylyl glycol seems to be not compatible with edta

Do tell me what you guys think

So the sample you made without sorbic acid and didn’t have the issue…
Where have you heard that sorbic acid is recommended to pair with EDTA?
Waleed636

Member
November 14, 2019 at 2:16 am

Pretty caught up with other work
Haven’t tried without Sorbic acid
I heared of pairing sorbic acid with edta on lotioncrafter but i think they just updated their website
bil7

Member
November 16, 2019 at 6:59 am

Reduce dmdm at 0.2 percent thats enough.
Add other salinip or phenonip. Both same .
Waleed636

Member
November 19, 2019 at 11:40 am

We claim that our products are paraben free and alcohol free
We have water based serum collection