Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating dimethicone keeps clumping in C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate and cyclomethicone mixture?

  • dimethicone keeps clumping in C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate and cyclomethicone mixture?

    Posted by frustratednovice on December 28, 2021 at 9:09 pm

    I am a newbie DIY.

    I’m trying to mix
    dimethicone, cyclomethicone and oil and from a clear miscible solution for a
    hair oil.

    LotionCrafter’s
    premix

    Cyclomethicone (and)
    Dimethicone and oil would form a cloudy mixture in which the oil would later
    separate and float to the top.

    I thought the oil
    might be a problem so I mixed the premix Cyclomethicone and Dimethicone with
    Cyclomethicone, and that would also cause what I assume the dimethicone to
    separate and settle at the bottom.

    So I tried C12-15
    Alkyl Benzoate in hopes that it would help emulsify just using the premix
    Cyclomethicone and Dimethicone and it would form a white thick creamy
    dimethicone(?) separated from a clear cyclomethicone and alkyl benzoate.

    They’re all
    Lotioncrafter’s products but the customer support hasn’t been able to give a
    product to successfully mix dimethicone, cyclomethicone and oil.

    Thank you.

    Pharma replied 2 years, 5 months ago 7 Members · 8 Replies
  • 8 Replies
  • ketchito

    Member
    December 29, 2021 at 1:49 pm

    @frustratednovice That’s weird indeed. I’d expect that at least Cyclomethicone (and) dimethicone and Cyclomethicone would mix without issue. Are you somehow heating the mixture during the process? That could the dimethicone gum, so try to do the process without heat. Also, mix during the process of addition. Are Cyclomethicone (and) dimethicone, Cyclomethicone and C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate the only ingredients in your formula?

  • chemicalmatt

    Member
    December 31, 2021 at 4:38 pm

    @frustratednovice As I often like to say: what CAN’T Finsolv TN do? (aka C12-15 alkyl  benzoate) Well….it can’t solvate dimethicone and certainly not dimethicone/siloxane crosspolymer gums. It is miscible with cyclomethicone, just not the other silicones, and that’s the source of your cloud clump headache. Try Plan B - and I cannot say what that might be. 

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 10:47 am

    I used this trick many times and it always works: mix your oil with alkyl benzoate, add cyclomethicone, add that solution into dimethicone. It must be noted that it only works up to a certain amount of oil. Not more than 2-3% subject to the type of oil. 

  • Pharma

    Member
    January 4, 2022 at 8:41 am
    You mention oil several times… what oil? How much of each ingredient?
    Did you try a silicone emulsifier?
  • ariepfadli

    Member
    January 9, 2022 at 4:56 pm

    You can’t mix oil with silicone it will not clear solution, but try mix it with ester like IPP and IPM, it good compatibility

  • emma1985

    Member
    January 9, 2022 at 6:17 pm

    I think the issue here is polarity.

    Have you tried finding a list of lipids by polarity? You can search, “chemist corner forum, polarity.”

    Polar lipids won’t mix with nonpolar lipids.

    If you want to use plant oils in your formulation, I would pick a plant oil that matches the polarity of Dimethicone and Cyclomethicone. 

    I myself have experienced separation when combining plant oils with cyclomethicone (I believe it was Apricot.)

    Can you clarify what you did to get the thick creamy layer? That sounds interesting.. You combined premixed Dimethicone and Cyclomethicone with  C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate?

  • emma1985

    Member
    January 9, 2022 at 6:22 pm

    There’s some information here about polarity. Based on the information in this thread, you might be able to combine Dimethicone and Cyclomethicone with Peanut Oil, Almond Oil, Jojoba Oil, Avocado Oil, Sunflower Oil, possibly Olive Oil.

    Dimethicone and Cyclomethicone are nonpolar, and so are the aforementioned plant oils, whereas C12-15 AB is polar.

    https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/355/polarity-of-cosmetic-oils

  • Pharma

    Member
    January 10, 2022 at 5:41 am

    Or, as mentioned, use a silicone emulsifier to overcome that ‘polarity’ problem (it’s a lipophilicity problem but for non-chemistst this doesn’t matter).

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