Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating dermosoft 1388

  • markbroussard

    Member
    July 19, 2021 at 3:29 pm

    Correction:  The natural Phenoxyethanol is from Tyger Scientific.  I’ve never used it since my client base generally cannot use phenoxyethanol as it is prohibited by several of their retailers.

  • abdullah

    Member
    July 19, 2021 at 3:41 pm

    Use phenoxyethanol instead of benzyl alcohol. It is milder, stronger for gram negative bacteria at will grow most in body wash and have less impact in viscosity than benzyl alcohol.

  • abdullah

    Member
    July 19, 2021 at 3:46 pm

    PhilGeis said:

    I’d not use with sorbate.  No purpose with two organic acids and the benzoic acid/surfactant phenomenon is not found with sorbic acid.

    What is this benzoic acid/surfactant phenomenon? 

    If i us sodium benzoate+phenoxyethanol +0.2 EDTA in shampoo, What ratio would give best results? 

  • pharma

    Member
    July 19, 2021 at 7:49 pm

    …The main problem…they really blow the viscosity of most emulsion…

    Ugh… that seems to be a common issue with several alternative preservatives. Thanks for sharing.
    Regarding ‘synthetic’ vs.’natural’ phenoxyethanol by Tyger: CAS # for both is the same = both are phenoxyethanol. Dunno why they are allowed to rename the chemical name of one into ‘natural phenoxyethanol’. What do they mean by that? They further claim: ‘The natural version of phenoxyethanol can be used in products in
    order to boast the fully natural status of the product as opposed to
    containing synthetic chemicals.’ WTF…
    They even have a ‘natural’ caprylhydroxamic acid, ‘natural’ ethanesulfonic acid’, and ‘natural’ carbon dioxide. Somebody shoot me, PLEASE!
    Usually, synthetic products (100% or at least most of their carbon skeletton) which are made from renewable resources instead of petroleum are termed bio-… like HERE  = may or may not occur in nature. Whereas the term ‘natural’ commonly refers to ‘isolated as is from renewable feedstock’ = obviously does occur in nature. Products which do exist in nature but were synthesised from whatever (petroleum and/or renewable feedstock) are termed ‘natural identical’. I know, this is not an official standard nomenclature but is accepted on a broad basis. Some simply do like to fight over what ‘natural’ means and where it starts or ends. That’s why one should use terms like ‘renewable feedstock’ instead.
  • markbroussard

    Member
    July 19, 2021 at 8:00 pm

    @Pharma:

    Regarding Tyger … I’ve never used their products, am only aware that they were marketing a “natural” phenxoyethanol … if you are curious enough, you might ask them some questions.

    I suspect that what they mean by natural is nature identical manufactured from renewable feedstocks.  But, since I am highly likely to never use their products, not a line of inquiry I have time to pursue. 

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    July 19, 2021 at 9:00 pm

    Pharma - “natural” phenoxyethanol.   Please elaborate. 

  • oldperry

    Member
    July 19, 2021 at 9:37 pm

    @PhilGeis - I think it’s “natural” in that it doesn’t come from a “supernatural” source so, you know, natural. 

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    July 19, 2021 at 10:23 pm

    Thanks Perry.  Now I see!!
    I emailed Tyger with the question.  Will let you know what they say.

  • domicanica

    Member
    July 21, 2021 at 12:08 am

    thanks a lot for the guidance everyone. also thank you @PhilGeis for the reality check because sometimes i buy into the marketing hype and i’m beginning to see that the info is often inaccurate.

    i think i will try the sodium benzoate with benzyl alcohol or potassium sorbate and glycols. because i still have some dermosoft i’ll also try that with the dehydroacetic acid and glycols as suggested. i’ll also try phenoxyethanol and see how my skin handles it and determine which system i prefer.

  • suswang8

    Member
    July 24, 2021 at 1:16 am

    Skinchakra is using 1388 in a recent lysolecithin-based formulation she posted about, and I’m 99% sure she does microbiology tests on all of these recipes.

  • abdullah

    Member
    July 24, 2021 at 5:19 am

    Your emulsifier also has a big role in your preservative effectiveness. 

    Check this file.

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