Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Conditioning Shampoo Formula leaves hair tangled Please Help!

  • Conditioning Shampoo Formula leaves hair tangled Please Help!

    Posted by nicole1505 on June 9, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Hello everyone, I’m new here. I want to ask help because I have been formulating a conditioning shampoo for months but I can’t seem to achieve the conditioning effect. The formula leaves hair clean, and nice when dry, but wet combing is almost impossible without a conditioner/leave in conditioner. I have tried many conditioning agents (Polyquaterniums, Croda’s Arlasilk, Cromollient, Lustreplex) but nothing seems to work. I want to achieve a performance like Garnier’s hair food 98% natural hydrating aloe vera shampoo (ingredient list in photo), which has a good sensory in shower and makes hair easy to detangle when wet even without conditioner, so I know it is possible.

    Here is the main formula I have been trying:

    Water 76% approx

    Sodium Laureth Sulfate 9% (I have tried to vary between 7 and 11%)

    Coco-Glucoside 3%

    LAMESOFT PO65 (68% Coco-Glucoside (and) Glyceryl Oleate) 1.3% (Have tried to vary between 0.8 and 1.8 %)

    Cocamidopropyl betaine 4%

    Cocamide DEA (1-2%)

    Polyquaternium-7 (1%)

    Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride (0.25%)

    Polyquaternium-10 (0.15%)

    Fragance (0.6%)

    PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate (0.3%)

    Panthenol (0.2%)

    Methylchloroisothiazolinone (and) Methylisothiazolinone (0.1%)

    Trisodium salt of Methylglycinediacetic acid (MGDA) (0.1%)

    TEA

    I also tried to replicate Garnier’s formula but I could not adjust viscosity.

    Please help me balance the formula or maybe mention a conditioning agent I could use to improve performance.

    Thank you in advance.

    dilky replied 3 weeks, 2 days ago 5 Members · 16 Replies
  • 16 Replies
  • ketchito

    Member
    June 10, 2024 at 6:48 am

    You need something to add lubrication, and for that, silicones are kings (or queens). Are you up to use silicones? Or not really? Chances are the benchmark you chose also leaves hair tangled.

    • nicole1505

      Member
      June 13, 2024 at 10:32 pm

      Hello Ketchito, I forgot to mention that with Garnier’s shampoo my hair is a little bit tangled right after the shower but it is amazing how easy it is to detangle, its like I had used conditioner or leave in but it’s actually just the conditioning effect of the shampoo

      • ketchito

        Member
        June 14, 2024 at 6:54 am

        Just as an experiment, remove your coco-glycoside and increase Lamesot PO65 up to 5% (as is). I see on the manufacturer’s website that tests are done at the highest recommended dose, and the Garnier product actually has it at high level, so let’s see if the magic occurs at that dose. If positive, you can start dosing down until you find a confortable level.

        • nicole1505

          Member
          June 21, 2024 at 9:49 pm

          Helloooo! I tried increasing Lamesoft to 3.5% and removing pure coco glucoside but it didn’t improve the performance and it was almost impossible to remove the shampoo from my hair 😭 do you have any other idea?

  • nicole1505

    Member
    June 10, 2024 at 7:39 am

    Hello! Thank you for your response. I didn’t want to use silicones because of the “natural concept” but I am open to try if it’s going to improve performance significantly. I have tried Dows Microemulsions 8170 and 8177 but I wasn’t sure how much I should use. I tried 3.0%.

    Which silicone would you recommend that can give me a translucent formula?

    • nicole1505

      Member
      June 10, 2024 at 7:41 am

      Also I couldn’t adjust viscosity when I added Silicones, I tried adding NaCl or magnesium sulfate but the viscosity just wouldn’t increase.

      Do you have an advice for increasing viscosity when using silicones?

  • ketchito

    Member
    June 11, 2024 at 8:15 am

    You can increase your CAPB a bit, and check again if NaCl increased the viscosity. Also, for transparent systems, you could use PEG-12 dimethicone, between 1-2%.

    • melissa1505

      Member
      June 11, 2024 at 2:55 pm

      Hello!

      I will increase CAPB then to 5.0%. I will try adding Dow 193 fluid which is Peg-12 dimethicone. When do you reccomend adding it?

  • Oph

    Member
    June 11, 2024 at 9:14 am

    Hello !
    I think you can remove the Coco-Glucoside, already added by the Lamesoft.
    Also, what is your introduction order ? Sometimes there are anionic/cationic interactions and this can affect the effectiveness of your cationic agents.

    • melissa1505

      Member
      June 11, 2024 at 2:59 pm

      Hello! Do you think Coco-glucoside is affecting performance?

      Here is my order of addition:

      1.Water

      2.Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride

      3. Citric Acid to neutralize guar and make it clear

      4. CAPB

      5. Sodium Laureth Sulfate

      6. Lamesoft PO65

      7.Coco-glucoside

      8. PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate

      9. Polyquaternium 7

      10. Polyquaternium 10

      11. Panthenol

      12. Methylchloroisothiazolinone (and) Methylisothiazolinone

      13. Fragance

      14. TEA

      Thank you.

      • Oph

        Member
        June 12, 2024 at 3:04 am

        Hello 🙂
        I don’t know about the impact of Coco-Glucoside, but you already have it into the lamesoft, maybe it’s too much.
        About the introduction order, i would make a different way : water + surfactant system into the main bulk, and cationic agents into annex bulks (Guar neutralized into 10% of water, same thing with PQ10. (don’t need to be neutralized, but stir it in 50°C water until clearness). Then introduct the annexes into your system.

  • nicole1505

    Member
    June 21, 2024 at 9:53 pm

    Hello! The thing is that I am using Dehyquart Guar Tc which is Guar for translucent formulation and I have to add it right before betaine and then SLES or otherwise it becomes cloudy 😭

  • dilky

    Member
    June 22, 2024 at 11:10 am

    Hi am new to this platform…just a suggestion…how about incorporating PEG-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate

    • nicole1505

      Member
      June 23, 2024 at 5:24 pm

      Hello! Is that a conditioning agent?

      • dilky

        Member
        June 24, 2024 at 12:56 am

        Its an emulsifier that helps in conditioning too.

        Am a budding formulator who only focuses on making products for myself & family/friends.

        Am glad I joined this forum because I was able to gain a lot of information (which I was not aware) from many experts in this panel.

        Having said that, the above Ingredient was introduced to me by my kind instructor. She told me that its advisable if I use it only for a shampoo which is a rinse off product & its best if I stick onto a percentage of 1 to max 1.5.

        • dilky

          Member
          June 24, 2024 at 1:30 am

          References where I cross check to validate info about ingredients given o me

          NIH

          SPECIAL CHEM

          TAYLOR FRANCIS ONLINE

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