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Combining Preservatives - Germall Plus and Euxyl
So I know each preservative has its strengths and weaknesses, therefore I am interested in combining 2 preservatives (in addition to using GMP.) I already use Liquid Germall Plus and have for many years, but I am interested in adding Euxyl 9010.
Are there any concerns regarding the combination of 0.5% Liquid Germall Plus and 0.5% Euxyl 9010? There are no ingredient overlaps. I wanted to check with you all just in case I’m missing something.
I also use 0.1% Disodium EDTA.
Thank you in advance.
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20 Replies
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Euxyl 9010 (phenoxyethanol) targets Gram negative bacteria - as does Germall. they overlap in efficacy. Are you seeing issues wiuth Gram negative’s?
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PhilGeis said:Euxyl 9010 (phenoxyethanol) targets Gram negative bacteria - as does Germall. they overlap in efficacy. Are you seeing issues wiuth Gram negative’s?
No, just want to achieve a really robust preservative system. I’m intrigued by Euxyl because it is advertised as being able to kill bacteria in a product that is already contaminated. I use GMP but I do formulate with extracts, hydrosols, etc. Ingredients that can be difficult to preserve. I’m okay with overlap as long as there are no issues.
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Don’t bet on killing bacteria in contaminated product. How does the Germall+/EDTA perform in chaloenge?
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I’m not betting on it, as I said I always use GMP but on the off chance that one of my ingredients is contaminated, I like the idea of Euxyl as I do use a lot of botanicals.
I haven’t tested my products because I only make skincare for myself and friends/family, for now. I want to sell in the future which is why I’m researching preservative combinations.
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Not often I get to add to Dr. Phil Geis’ comments (I am a fan) but I will: Germall Plus is broad-spectrum having the IPBC in there and one of the best you can use. My opinion, and Phil can add here, is the Euxyl may be turbocharging your anti-bac efficacy with the phenoxyethanol and only marginally adding to the antifungal activity. Euxyl is no harm, no foul, but maybe unnecessary.
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I’m with chemicalmatt!
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Thank you both so much!
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I will use a chance to throw my question too as we are lucky to have two experts here. I often combine germall plus and phenonip. The reason being, I buy ingredients from repackagers, and you can’t trust them on storing ingredients properly (I saw things like coconut oil in a ziplock bag and photosensitive materials in a transparent bottle). Also they decant ingredients million times allowing dust and bugs in. So I just assume all ingredients are compromised from day 1. Is there any reason not to do this. I figured there are no overlapping compounds in these two preservative blends so I won’t go over recommended limit. Thank you in advance @PhilGeis and @chemicalmatt
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You mak verye reasonable points. My experiecne was with a big company that could demand quality materials. I used single components so that I could adjust/titrate concnentrations if needed.
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Thank you. I understand it’s a bit overkill but unfortunately cosmetic formulation as a hobby has limitations when it comes to sourcing materials (both price and quality).
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ngarayeva001 said:I will use a chance to throw my question too as we are lucky to have two experts here. I often combine germall plus and phenonip. The reason being, I buy ingredients from repackagers, and you can’t trust them on storing ingredients properly (I saw things like coconut oil in a ziplock bag and photosensitive materials in a transparent bottle). Also they decant ingredients million times allowing dust and bugs in. So I just assume all ingredients are compromised from day 1. Is there any reason not to do this. I figured there are no overlapping compounds in these two preservative blends so I won’t go over recommended limit. Thank you in advance @PhilGeis and @chemicalmatt
When you say “bug food”, what do you mean by it? What ingredients fall under this category of ingredients?
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“Bug food” is any ingredient on which microbes can eat and grow. This can be sugars, carbohydrates, proteins, or a variety of other hydrocarbons found in cosmetics formulas.
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and they don’t even need much “food” as bugs (esp. Gram negatives like cepacia) can contaminated purified water systems.
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A couple of very common examples: plant extracts, hydrolyzed proteins, aloe (deserves its own place I think), lecithin, and clays. And obviously anything that can be classified as food: milk, honey, fruit and vegetable purées (hello Lush) and similar claim ingredients that don’t do anything beyond being fairy dust.
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@PhilGeis Dr. Geis, it always fascinated me how some bacteria manage to multiply in steam distilled water.
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ngarayeva001 said:@PhilGeis Dr. Geis, it always fascinated me how some bacteria manage to multiply in steam distilled water.
Yes! Even more bizarre - raw materials: fungal (Penicillim spores) contamination citric acid, ZPT suspension for antidandruff shampoo with P. aeruginosa, concentrated disinfectant quat active raw material with P. aeruginosa, B. cepacia in 70% ethanol (not mine - in literature).
products: colonies of Kurthia sp. isolate in/on soap bar (with milk), Bacillus sp. isolate in pH 9 built hard surface cleaner, Halomonas in high pH liquid laundry
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PhilGeis said:ngarayeva001 said:@PhilGeis Dr. Geis, it always fascinated me how some bacteria manage to multiply in steam distilled water.
Yes! Even more bizarre - raw materials: fungal (Penicillim spores) contamination citric acid, ZPT suspension for antidandruff shampoo with P. aeruginosa, concentrated disinfectant quat active raw material with P. aeruginosa, B. cepacia in 70% ethanol (not mine - in literature).
products: colonies of Kurthia sp. isolate in/on soap bar (with milk), Bacillus sp. isolate in pH 9 built hard surface cleaner, Halomonas in high pH liquid laundry
Isn’t nature fascinating!! And frustrating too ????
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ngarayeva001 said:I will use a chance to throw my question too as we are lucky to have two experts here. I often combine germall plus and phenonip. The reason being, I buy ingredients from repackagers, and you can’t trust them on storing ingredients properly (I saw things like coconut oil in a ziplock bag and photosensitive materials in a transparent bottle). Also they decant ingredients million times allowing dust and bugs in. So I just assume all ingredients are compromised from day 1. Is there any reason not to do this. I figured there are no overlapping compounds in these two preservative blends so I won’t go over recommended limit. Thank you in advance @PhilGeis and @chemicalmatt
You mention “storing ingredientats” and this is something I am currently in the middle of researching as I need to rearrange and figure out the most efficient way to store my ingredients…do you have a system down for storing your ingredients that works and that prevents ingredients from going bad before their expiration date?
If this needs to be started as a new discussion, I totally understand….just curious as I am in dire need of a system to store my ever growing ingredient stores! -
A fridge or even better a freezer would be great
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Suggest folks deal with competent suppliers who tell you how and how long to store raw materials. Excessive heat and excessive cold can both compromise a raw material. I recall cosmetic manufacturer who stored drums of preservative solution at less than specified temp. Active fell out of solution leaving ingredient addition nothing but solvent - and product unpreserved and contaminated.
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