Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Combination of Geogard 221 & Leucidal Liquid SF

  • Combination of Geogard 221 & Leucidal Liquid SF

    Posted by halrac on August 8, 2017 at 2:58 pm

    Good afternoon,

    I am about to make this Vitamin C Serum (for my personal use only, I only expect it to last 1 to 2 months unless the L-Ascorbic
    Acid oxidizes before that).

    This is the formula (pH 3.5):

    Distilled
    Water
       Q.S.
    Sodium Lactate    3%
    Panthenol    1%
    Glycerin    1%
    Ferulic Acid    0,5%
    Polysorbate 80
    *
       1%
    d-Alpha
    Tocopherol *
       1%
    Sodium
    Hyaluronate (RMW)
       0,2%
    1,3-Propanediol    30%
    L-Ascorbic
    Acid
       15%
    Preservative(s)    Q.S.

    I live in Europe, so I cannot buy Liquid Germall Plus (my first option); I cannot use Geogard 221 with Potassium Sorbate because of the Vit. C,  so I was thinking of using a combination of Geogard 221 (1%) &  Leucidal Liquid SF (2%). Is that viable/safe?

    Note: I have had a skin reaction to Phenoxyethanol in the past, and call me ignorant, but I a am a little bit afraid of parabens…

    Thank you very much!

    halrac replied 6 years, 6 months ago 7 Members · 18 Replies
  • 18 Replies
  • DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ

    Member
    August 8, 2017 at 3:25 pm

    Geoguard ultra would be better.Use at 1% .

  • halrac

    Member
    August 8, 2017 at 3:33 pm

    Hi DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ!

    Thank you for your prompt reply. I thought mixing Sodium
    Benzoate and Vit. C was also not a good idea…

  • belassi

    Member
    August 8, 2017 at 5:29 pm

    I’d like to suggest using either L-Resveratrol or Pycnogenol (pine bark extract) as an antioxidant. Of the two, pine bark extract has no solubility issues but it is a dark brown colour.

  • halrac

    Member
    August 8, 2017 at 5:57 pm

    Hi Belassi!

    Thank you very much for your suggestion. Unfortunately, I can only find L-Resveratrol and Pycnogenol as oral supplements :(

  • belassi

    Member
    August 8, 2017 at 7:11 pm

    In that case, a possible fallback is green tea extract (high in EGCG), 0.2-0.5%; it is an indicator so you might get a pink colour in that pH. There is a commonality between this and pine bark extract.
    I have all three here, but for our vitamin C product, I use the pine, because it is the most potent and the L-Res, because of solubility issues, I only use that in a COSMOS item that has a lot of ethanol in it.

  • halrac

    Member
    August 8, 2017 at 9:28 pm

    Green tee is easier to get.

    Thank you very much for your generosity!

  • halrac

    Member
    August 8, 2017 at 9:46 pm

    One last thing Belassi… If I was able to find the Pycnogenol (I am quite stubborn), what would be the right percentage for my recipe?

  • belassi

    Member
    August 8, 2017 at 9:57 pm

    Hang on I’ll check:
    My experimental notes record 0.3% L-Resveratrol (in 15% ethanol)
    And the other version (please note I am using not L-Ascorbic acid, but  L-Ascorbyl 2-phosphate 6-palmitate ) has 2% of pine bark extract from Bulk Actives in Keelung, Taiwan. You will probably need a higher % since the version of the vitamin I use is relatively stable and requires only 1%.

  • halrac

    Member
    August 8, 2017 at 10:04 pm

    Wow… You are amazing. I am so sad that I did not have a good chemistry teacher in school and always hated it… :#

  • belassi

    Member
    August 8, 2017 at 10:14 pm

    Very generous of you. I did teach chemistry at one point but in the world of cosmetic chemistry, I am self-taught (with the help of Perry’s excellent resource, Harry’s Cosmetology, Dermatology News, etc.)
    Bulk Actives is a good source of actives by the way. They do air mail.

  • halrac

    Member
    August 9, 2017 at 5:51 am

    Once again, thank you!

  • jeremien

    Member
    August 9, 2017 at 8:35 am

    Is the combination Potassium Sorbate / Vit. C a real issue? I know that it was already comment on this forum for the residual Benzene produced that is induced by light. I understand that potassium sorbate in formulation is used at acidic pH <5 and is mainly on the form of sorbic acid., thus at the concentration of use of both products it will no be an issue.   

  • lewhitak

    Member
    August 9, 2017 at 5:28 pm

    Belassi, do you have any information about the green tea being an indicator? That’s very interesting. We use a 90% EGCG standardized green tea extract and I would love to learn more about it as an indicator. Thank you!!

  • belassi

    Member
    August 9, 2017 at 6:28 pm

    No, just practical experience. In basic solutions it turns brown. In acidic solutions it turns pink. See for yourself: Make a solution and test it with your pH meter. Add NaOH to turn it basic and make another solution, add citric acid. You will see what I mean. Many vegetable extracts display similar properties, the classic one is red cabbage.

  • Doreen

    Member
    August 15, 2017 at 8:55 am

    This is the formula (pH 3.5):

    Distilled Water    Q.S.
    Sodium Lactate    3%
    Panthenol    1%
    Glycerin    1%
    Ferulic Acid    0,5%
    Polysorbate 80 *    1%
    d-Alpha Tocopherol *    1%
    Sodium Hyaluronate (RMW)    0,2%
    1,3-Propanediol    30%
    L-Ascorbic Acid    15%
    Preservative(s)    Q.S.

    @MarkBroussard
    LOL I see your formula is a real hit, keep seeing this everywhere!.  :D 

  • halrac

    Member
    August 17, 2017 at 3:59 pm

    I do hope it works!!

    In any case, I am waiting for the Pycnogenol to arrive (as Belassi suggested).

    I will keep you updated..

  • kot

    Member
    August 19, 2017 at 5:52 pm

    Isn’t green tea extract no go with ascorbic acid- i’ve read somewhere lo-o-ong time ago that green tea has metals in it and combined together will oxidise the metals in green tea, or green tea will oxidise ascorbic- one of this, sorry cannot remember which is correct. :) for this same reason it’s not recommended to drink green tea with lemon.

  • halrac

    Member
    October 17, 2017 at 10:49 am

    So… I have tried the formula twice and have encountered several problems (why am I not surprised…), not because of @MarkBroussard formula, but because of me.

    First, the ferulic acid would not solubilize in glycerin, I tried the second time with 1,3-Propanediol and that did work. I had also had problems when incorporating the hyaluronic acid, so the second time I included it once it had soaked in water for a while.

    I had also problems dissolving the ascorbic acid (I should have used a fine milled one).
     
    In order to make this even more horrible, I decided to add some vitamin e (1% mixed tocopherols) dissolved in polysorbate 80 (1%). It turned milky white. The geogard ultra did not dissolved completely in water and I threw it all down the drain.

    Next time, I will buy ultrafine ascorbic acid, dissolve the geogard in some glycerine instead of water and forget about the vitamin e.

    I just wanted to share my experience with you sou you could have a good laugh at my expense ;)

    By the way, @Belassi, I got some Pycnogenol but it turned into mud…  :#

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