Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Cocoamide MEA in dish wash liquid

  • Cocoamide MEA in dish wash liquid

    Posted by teejay on January 22, 2019 at 7:01 am

    Hello Everyone,

    I have this surfactant blend (Galaxy 622) that I use in formulating hair shampoo. The INCI name is: water, SLES, CAPB, NACL and Cocamide MEA.

    I’m considering using the blend to formulate a dish washing liquid but I’m not sure if it’s OK to use cocamide MEA for that purpose.

    Also what would be the best preservative? I’m considering Phenoxyethanol and sodium benzoate. 

    Thanks.

    teejay replied 5 years ago 7 Members · 12 Replies
  • 12 Replies
  • teejay

    Member
    January 22, 2019 at 3:51 pm

    Hi. @Belassi @DAS @Chemist77 @Perry
    I would love your input on this. Thank you

  • chemist77

    Member
    January 22, 2019 at 4:24 pm

    I am not sure what’s your budget cost here as that blend looks a bit pricey for such home care application. I generally use LABSA, in-situ neutralization and a combination of anionics. If the budget allows then I chuck in some non-ionics as well. But that’s rare. 
    For preservative I use glutaraldehyde from Dow Microbial, very effective and cost friendly. And then the specialties depending on the customer needs. 
    You can try that blend and I don’t think an issue with the CMEA. I would prefer a higher pH in such applications but with that preservative you are restricted to around 5.0

  • belassi

    Member
    January 22, 2019 at 4:27 pm

    ^^^ that. I don’t think your idea would be very effective as a dish cleaner.

  • em88

    Member
    January 22, 2019 at 5:14 pm

    I think that blend has a pH over 7. 

  • oldperry

    Member
    January 22, 2019 at 6:29 pm

    My formulation training is in cosmetic products so I don’t know the ins and outs of making a dish detergent product. However, something that works as a shampoo will technically work as a dish detergent but the amount & type of foam you get will probably be wrong.  Cocamide MEA will rinse off fine so I don’t see a problem using it.

    Phenoxyethanol may be fine enough but above a pH of 5.0 Sodium Benzoate isn’t going to have much effect.  Personally, I’d use DMDM Hydantoin.

  • teejay

    Member
    January 22, 2019 at 9:07 pm

    Thanks guys.  

    @Belassi why so?

    @Chemist77 @Perry I’ll have to get another preservative. Not sure DMDM Hydantoin is available locally here. I’m trying to avoid the use of parabens but that’s what is popular around here.

  • belassi

    Member
    January 22, 2019 at 9:22 pm

    why so?
    - Do you see any commercial products made with that combination? No. Think there might be a good reason? It’s not going to perform well versus the usual surfactants.

  • das

    Member
    January 22, 2019 at 10:54 pm

    It could be a good product if you sell it right. I had a similar product and I discontinued it not long ago. The issue is, as mentioned before, the cost. A “cosmetic” dish wash will be expensive, and if you don’t market it right you will end up like me, using the last drum to clean the floor. The niche I found is for people who has allergies or high sensitivity. 

    If you are going to give it a shot I suggest you this:

    - add an ethoxylated fatty alcohol to change the foam profile and the viscosity. 
    - add claim ingredients, whatever people in your area think is good for the skin. Glycerin, aloe vera, jojoba, snake poison…
    - a formaldehyde releaser will work, but if it’s expensive or hard to source try MIT. 
    - a chelating agent won’t hurt. 
    - sell it first, manufacture it later. Make a small batch for samples, if it doesn’t work you won’t end up losing money.
    - make it light pink, it gives the sensation of mildness.  Mine was orange, huge mistake.
    - sell it right. It’s the kind of product consumers won’t find elsewhere.

  • gunther

    Member
    January 22, 2019 at 11:35 pm

    Some commercial, low-irritancy dishwash blends are pretty much shampoo-like.
    They aren’t as good as cutting grease as sulfonate formulations, but they can be used without wearing gloves

    IMO 
    you can try SLES+SLS, Dawn dishwash has it
    Cocamide DEA leaves a sticky afterfeel. CMEA might do as well.
    CAPB may reduce irritancy better than CDEA/MEA does, and costs about the same.

  • chemist77

    Member
    January 23, 2019 at 12:57 am

    I do the soap/synthetic surfactant mix and it has been doing pretty much fine until now. As @DAS reminded, a chelating agent will help in such formulation, I use it too. 
    @Gunther for us CAPB is half the price of CDEA/CMEA but a good choice to reduce irritancy. 

  • em88

    Member
    January 23, 2019 at 8:18 am

    According to Stepan https://www.stepan.com/products/Surfactants/NINOL%C2%AE/NINOL%C2%AE-COMF-N.aspx CMEA can be used to formulate a liquid dishwasher. 
    I also don’t think there should be any issue using CMEA

  • teejay

    Member
    January 27, 2019 at 9:35 pm

    Sorry I’ve been away. I think i’ll try two methods. One with the surfactant blend. I searched for LABSA like @Chemist77 suggested but I couldn’t find so I’ll try a second method using SLS and CAPB. I have other ingredients like glycerin and EDTA. I’ll give updates when I’m done.

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