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Change my view - Hyaluronic acid vs Glycerin
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Perry said:(…) @ngarayeva001 - I overlooked the gel possibilities, so congratulations, you’ve changed my view…a little bit. (…)That’s also the biggest reason why I use medium/high molecular weight hyaluronic acid in serums.
It’s funny that in private I use it for its viscosity and work-related I only deal with an enzyme that breaks it down (a hyaluronidase) which causes i.a. loss of viscosity of HA. (This increases tissue permeability and has so many pharmaceutical uses from preventing necrosis of skin (when extravasation happens with some chemos) to the possibility to inject higher volumes subcutaneous, as there isn’t much space between the dermis and hypodermis).
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I know hyaluronidase is used to fix result of not very tastefully injected lip/face fillers.
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@ngarayeva001
Correct! That as well.
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So in your work are you using high molecular weight? Or not at all just the catalyst? What is the work you do sounds interesting?
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@Perry @MarkBroussard - The full study is in Korean, but the tables are in english and you can see they are using 1:1 ratio. I can’t read Korean so I don’t know the MW of the HA.
Tangentially related, are we comparing glycerin to true Hyaluronic Acid? We exclusively buy Sodium hyaluronate. I know there’s some kind of equilibrium in solution, just wondering if companies are really buying as HA. -
@EVchem - Great find, thanks!
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EVchem said:@Perry @MarkBroussard - The full study is in Korean, but the tables are in english and you can see they are using 1:1 ratio. I can’t read Korean so I don’t know the MW of the HA.
Tangentially related, are we comparing glycerin to true Hyaluronic Acid? We exclusively buy Sodium hyaluronate. I know there’s some kind of equilibrium in solution, just wondering if companies are really buying as HA.thanks
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@EVchem - Of course, something must be strange going on here because I didn’t think you could make more than a 2% solution of Hyaluronic Acid without it turning into a thick solid.
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@Perry:
Correct, something is not right with this study if they are claiming to have used 5% Hyaluronic Acid … perhaps what they actually mean is 5% of a 1% Hyaluronic Acid solution.
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Have you considered this study?
Please have a look at the “Fig. 4. Representation of the permeation and localization of various hyaluronic acid (HA) after fitting by their reference spectra and by comparison to the (a) positive (glycerin treated skin) and (b) negative (water treated skin) controls, (c) Cristalhyal (1000–1400 kDa HA), (d) Bashyal
(100–300 kDa HA), and (e) Renovhyal (20–50 kDa HA).”Seams like 1000–1400 kDa HA stays better at skin surface than glycerine and 20–50 kDa HA goes deeper, but thisis from my unprofessional point of view.
BTW my father had a Maserati and later on my mother had a Corolla, the only common thing was they were both gray.
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@maria - Interesting. The study looks at the penetration ability of HA and shows that some versions penetrate deep in the stratum corneum. I don’t agree that it shows that anything penetrates more deeply than glycerin though.
In reading the study, a few things occurred to me.
1. The study just looked at the migration of HA through human skin samples. While it provides an interesting model, it says little about how the ingredient behaves on living skin. Things like moisture levels, NMF, blood circulation, etc may all have an impact on the migration of these materials.
2. Glycerin goes everywhere any grade of HA goes. There is glycerin distributed throughout the skin both at the top and 100 micrometers down. In this way, Glycerin can be anywhere that any grade of HA can be.
3. This study doesn’t look at any end result of the treatment (e.g. moisturization). My initial contention that Glycerin works every bit as good as HA is gotten to by considering the end result of applying the two materials to the skin and taking measurements like skin moisturization, feel or any other property that a consumer would notice about their skin.
The only use study we have was the one posted above that showed glycerin outperformed HA.
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After I spent so much money and effort trying Sodium Hyaluronate and Hyalyronic Acid due to my gullibility, I concluded that they are not as superior to anything. Really is a marketing thing.
Firstly, they boast God-given power to absorb water 500 to 1000 times their weight. Most thickeners and suspending agents can do it. Carbomer can do it and do it much better than HA/SH.
Secondly, it claims to ‘hold’ water due to the water-sucking power. Like Urea which everyone seems to say it is a humectant and very hygroscopic, I wet it and let it dry, it turns back to crystal/powder/solid.
Only after learning about a peculiar phenomenon called ‘deep eutectic solvent’ (credit goes to @Pharma ) did I see through the trick. I presume it is identical to layman’s term “impurity”. Only a little Citric Acid in Urea solution renders Urea liquid/syrup for ever. I thought it was low pH, so I tried with a little Propylene Glycol and a little other stuff, I obtained the exact same result-Urea just won’t recrystallise. It was a WTF moment for me!
True enough, those so-called “tests” are a mixture of other things such as base cream as showed by @EVchem. The claim/marketing is a guaranteed failure if they tested it (any substance) as it is (single it out).
No different to Grapefruit Seed Extract as preservative-free natural-organic preservative, manufacturer never tells that it is laden with parabens, Benzethonium Chloride, Triclosan.I am not very sure about the “500 Dalton Rule”.
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very interesting perspective, how long have you been using cosmetics for? my husband was a brander with an advertising firm making TV commercials etc. The stuff that they come up with is really sad and a little short of total lies. The marketing department are good ones too. Allegedly in perfumery the perfumer will make a new perfume and when it gets to the marketing conference table, they are told to make it sweeter and that happens all the time.Defeats the purpose hey!I do have to say that parabens are not the bad guys they make out. In fact that is where the whole natural/organic thing really started and where I started to become specific. Everyone said it was just a phase but I took a gamble and yes the natural game is as strong as ever and the customers are as clueless as ever. Although I must say customers do want to read the label now and make their own choices. Is this good or bad???
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