Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating General CAPB vs cocamide DEA

  • CAPB vs cocamide DEA

    Posted by Abdullah on September 2, 2020 at 6:12 am

    In comparison of CAPB vs cocamide DEA, which is superior in these departments? 

    Foam boosting 
    Foam stabilizing 
    Viscosity increasing with SLES 
    Mildness to eye 
    Mildness to skin 

    In my experience cocamide DEA is better than CAPB but thatmthat be because of the quality of CAPB for this particular supplier. 

    ketchito replied 5 days, 11 hours ago 4 Members · 7 Replies
  • 7 Replies
  • zetein

    Member
    September 2, 2020 at 6:53 am

    CAPB was used as primary surfactant in quite a lot mild cleansing products.
    CDEA on the other hand, was never used as primary surfactant in any product.
    Though I wonders why.  😐

    • Tyro

      Member
      July 11, 2024 at 10:25 pm

      According to research Cocamide DEA is on the Proposition 65 list because it can cause cancer. Exposure to cocamide DEA may increase the risk of cancer.


      High concentration to of DEA is hazardous to human.

      Expert Panel concluded that Cocamide DEA was safe as used in rinse-off products and safe at concentrations of less than or equal to 10% in leave-on products but still I rather lower mine to 1-2%. Or use the alternative Co-surfactant.


      • ketchito

        Member
        July 12, 2024 at 8:43 am

        Proposición 65 is not a science based document. The risk comes because of secondary amines, which are impurities from the quaternization process (secondary amines are present in most cationics, at very low levels). Now, secondary amines themselves are not harmful, it’s only when they’re converted into nitrosamines. For that to happen, you need a nitrosating agent, which current cosmetics barely have. Also, you can minimize the risk by having an acidic pH in your formula (this neutralizes amines).

  • ketchito

    Member
    September 2, 2020 at 2:30 pm

    @Abdullah CAPB and Cocamide DEA have different interfacial propertirs. CAPB interacts more with anionic surfactants through it polar (head) group, forming mixed micelles which increase detergency and foam, and makes the system more mild. Cocamide DEA interacts more through its non polar (tail) group with both LESS and CAPB, making foam more stable/thick and giving more clarity through hydrogen bonding with water. 

    That’s why you usually see a combination of the three in very rich-foam products (LESS-CAPB-Cocamide DEA). 

  • Abdullah

    Member
    September 3, 2020 at 4:02 am

    @zetein in my experience CAPB can’t clean clean the scalp and hair for for adult oily scalp. Even at %10, %15, %20 active surfactant. I don’t know how it works for majority of people

  • Abdullah

    Member
    September 3, 2020 at 4:10 am

    @ketchito do all amphoteric surfactant interact this way with anionic surfactants or just CAPB? 

    What would be a good ratio between anionic/amphoteric surfactant for best detergency, mildness and foam? 

  • ketchito

    Member
    September 3, 2020 at 1:21 pm

    @Abdullah As a general rule, yes…but it depends on many things like the lenght of the alkyl tail (it it’s too long, hydrophobicity will push the molecule “down”, making it interact more with the tail), size of the polar group (that could also alter packing of the micelles), pH (which can actually be detrimental if pH is too low, forcing the amphoteric to behave as a cationic). 

    A good ratio for a mixture of SLES/CAPB would be 3:1 or 4:1. But be careful especially if you’re using salt in your system, because it can turn to gel very easily depending on the amounts of surfactants you’re using.

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