Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Body Mist based on Ethanol help!

  • Body Mist based on Ethanol help!

    Posted by Anonymous on May 6, 2016 at 9:22 am

    Hello everyone!
    This is my first post on this forum as i am quite disappointed from what i could find in the internet and UL prospector and i just need some help from you guys!
    I am developing a body mist with the following ingredients:
    1. Ethyl alcohol   65.0%
    2. Aqua              19.0%
    3. Glycerine          2.5%
    4. Propanediol      2.5%
    5. Solubilizer         5.0% (Solubilizant LRI)
    6. parfum              6.0%

    My problems are the following:
    1. The solubilizer i use it’s quite expensive and i am not sure about the quantity i use (5.0% is too much?). Also will i affect the formula by changing to Polysorbate-20 or PEG-40 HCO and at what level?
    2. I have a serious problem keeping the color protected as my mists tend to fade very quickly. I read about Benzophenone-2 that is suitable. In stock i have some samples from BASF, TINOGARD TL and TINOGARD HS that have solved the problem but are quite expensive, so if i could solve it with cheaper alternatives i would be more than happy!
    3. Please suggest if there is any database/Website that will help me about perfumes as i couldn’t find any.

    Thanks for your time!

    Nicolas
     

    LUXE replied 1 year ago 9 Members · 17 Replies
  • 17 Replies
  • belassi

    Member
    May 6, 2016 at 2:52 pm

    If the colour is fading then you need to change to a more stable dye.

  • david

    Member
    May 6, 2016 at 10:11 pm

    with that amount of EtOH you may not need a solubilizer, did you try to dissolve the perfume in alcohol? For the color : add EDTA or as @Belassi says change color. I’ve had some success with tinoguard - but yeah they are quite expensive

  • belassi

    Member
    May 7, 2016 at 4:37 am

    Well FWIW I was out buying shampoo bottles today and noticed that my supplier has a large range of atomiser bottles. So I picked up a few 75 mL bottles and couldn’t resist knocking together a quick body spray. Nothing complicated:
    70% ethyl alcohol: 70%
    fragrance: 1%
    Tween 20: 1%
    water: q/s (28%)

    works just great. I need to knock out the Tween to test if it’s needed. I’m just waiting for the trehalose to arrive from the UK then I will definitely adopt this as a new line.

    Regarding fragrance, you really are using 6%? I used 1% of a fragrance from Mane, and it persists on the skin for several hours.

  • belassi

    Member
    May 7, 2016 at 7:31 pm

    Made it without the Tween. Worked perfectly. Man’s version using 1% Black Drak as fragrance.

  • Anonymous

    Guest
    May 7, 2016 at 8:37 pm

    I am not sure if the mist eventually will precipitate or not without any solubiliser, as there is almost 30% water in your formula, what is your opinion? Yes, i used 6% fragrance in my formula because our clients need it strong and it seems that our fragrances are not strong enough to keep them in low concentrations. Regarding color changes do you believe EDTA will give any sufficient protection? Until now i considered UV filters as the main ingredients for color protection!!

  • belassi

    Member
    May 7, 2016 at 9:10 pm

    One day later it is clear and I expect it to remain that way since it can’t evaporate.
    I suggest you obtain better fragrances. Using 6% is ridiculous! Be careful buying fragrances - only use OEM suppliers - in my market many people buy from OEMs and adulterate them with diluents. No more than 1% should be necessary. MANE have excellent fragrances do you have access to their products?
    EDTA will not “protect” colour. Same comment here as your fragrances: you are using poor quality dyes. I had the same problem with sunlight (or even strong artificial light) fading colours and/or changing colour until I found a supplier of dyes of good quality. This problem simply doesn’t occur when you have a good quality dye.

    • LUXE

      Member
      April 2, 2023 at 2:45 pm

      I don’t see the list of fragrances that MAINE has to offer…can you supply the link?

      Thank you,

      Don Luxe

      • This reply was modified 1 year ago by  LUXE.
  • Anonymous

    Guest
    May 7, 2016 at 10:52 pm

    Perhaps you are right about the perfume, 6% is too much but changing this supplier now is something very difficult for us. This mist formulation to be honest looks more like to a eau de parfum formula than a body mist. Anyway hope your right about the solubiliser, as i am quite confused if finally this hydroalcoholic mixture needs or not a solubiliser! Regarding the dyes my supplier is Sensient which i consider very good, so i am sure that something else is going on.
    Thank you for very much for your help!

  • bill_toge

    Member
    May 8, 2016 at 12:25 am

    which colours are you using?

  • DragoN

    Member
    May 8, 2016 at 3:06 am

    The solubilizer is a mix:

    PPG-26-Buteth-26
    Hydrogenated castor oil
    Water 

    Could be part of the problem. 

     if i could solve it with cheaper alternatives i would be more than happy!
    Don’t package in clear bottles. 

    Please suggest if there is any database/Website that will help me about perfumes as i couldn’t find any.
    Chris Bartlett

  • belassi

    Member
    May 8, 2016 at 3:37 am

    To determine the %vwt of ethanol required to solubilise:
    1. Place x% grams of fragrance in a beaker where x is your % of fragrance.
    2. Add (100-x) grams of anhydrous ethanol so as to make it up to 100 gm.
    Mix. Is the solution transparent? If not, solubiliser is required anyway.
    If transparent, titrate with distilled water, stirring, until the solution just turns milky. Weigh the total. Do the math; calculate the minimum % ethanol required to solubilise.

  • Anonymous

    Guest
    May 9, 2016 at 5:22 pm

    You may want to get in touch with the oil house who is supplying the fragrance oil to you. It’s possible they can make a more concentrated version for you to use at a lower %. Most oil houses will make a fragrance base and then dilute it with solvent to bring down the cost to whatever their customers are requesting. If they can cut out the diluent, it may double the cost but if it allows you to use 1/3 of what you are now, you’ll spend less in the long run for a stronger fragrance oil.

    Also, just to be sure; when you say parfum are you talking about fragrance oil or actual fragrance/alcohol solution (perfume) 

  • Anonymous

    Guest
    May 9, 2016 at 8:19 pm

    Hi!

    Parfum i mean fragrance oil not alcohol solution. Bill_Toge i am trying to find the dye specs and i will come back.
    Thanks

  • eli1364

    Member
    May 12, 2016 at 7:16 am

    Hi everyone
    Please suggest me a fixative or stabilizer for eau de cologne
    my formulation doesn’t have fixative
    my ingredient is :alcohol,fragrance,glycerine,water
    thanks

  • chemist77

    Member
    May 15, 2016 at 8:12 am

    I had color issues with pink only and that too was solved when my supplier (Neelikon from India) sent me another pink and it was rock solid. As the other members pointed out I suppose you need to contact at your fragrance house, 6% is a lot and with that 65% ethanol you should not need any solubilizer (again subject to the fragrance you are using). It is a very simple product which wouldn’t take more than a jiffy. 

  • bahey

    Member
    December 25, 2019 at 11:37 am

    What about using isopropyl alcohol instead of Ethyl alcohol?

  • gunther

    Member
    December 27, 2019 at 9:14 pm

    1. At the end only experimentation can tell which and how much solubilizer you’ll need. 
    As a rule of thumb, the more water it contains, the more solubilizer you’ll need. Conversely, the more alcohol it contains, the less solubilizer you’ll need.
    You can try:
    Dipropylene glycol (you may need to reduce the glycerin to reduce tackiness).
    Poly Suga Mulse D9
    PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil
    Some polysorbate.

    2. Exactly what colorant are you using?

    3. What do you mean by a database?
    Did you mean a fragrance supplier product range?

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