Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating General Batch certification for pre-dispersed dyes?

  • Batch certification for pre-dispersed dyes?

    Posted by Sunstone on March 29, 2017 at 3:48 pm

    Hi everyone,

    I have a question regarding regulation around batch certified dyes. As we all know, if you want to use something like FD&C Blue #1, or Red #40, etc, in your formula, you need your color additive to be batch certified. However, does this also apply to color additives that have been pre-dispersed in a liquid medium? A supplier tells me that I can use their dispersions of batch certified dyes without the need of a repack certification (they sell some dyes with repack certs, but not all). Is their interpretation of the rules correct?

    Thanks for your help!

    chemnc replied 7 years, 2 months ago 5 Members · 8 Replies
  • 8 Replies
  • chemnc

    Member
    March 29, 2017 at 4:08 pm

    I think that your supplier has to be able to prove that batch-certified dyes were used in producing the suspension, but you are not subject to the requirement.

  • Bobzchemist

    Member
    March 29, 2017 at 6:19 pm

    It’s a grey area.

    If I was doing it, I’d change the paperwork to make it a little safer - make sure that the paperwork states the they are selling you a finished product - a dilution or dispersion made with certified pigments, and not the certified pigment itself.

    You could also have them bill you separately for the concentrated dye, and then for toll-processing the dilution, but that might require a  repack certificate. I’m not sure though, since the dye/pigment doesn’t actually leave their facility.

    (Dyes usually get diluted, usually only pigments get dispersed, btw)

  • Sunstone

    Member
    March 29, 2017 at 9:33 pm

    They’re all lakes, I really shouldn’t be calling them dyes. Regrettably for us smallfolks getting color additives that go beyond mica can be a bit complicated.

    Out of curiosity, does anyone know what kind of volumes Kobo sells their dispersions in?

  • chemnc

    Member
    March 30, 2017 at 7:18 pm

    Any reason you want to use these FD&C dyes? We used to have Yellow 5 and 6 on some of our products but we replaced them by derivatives of turmeric with excellent results.

  • belassi

    Member
    March 30, 2017 at 9:05 pm

    Turmeric is an approved colorant?

  • DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ

    Member
    March 30, 2017 at 11:28 pm

    Yes as far as I know

  • Sunstone

    Member
    March 31, 2017 at 8:09 pm

    @chemnc I’m mostly interested in reds 6,7 and 27. I don’t think any non-certified color additives come close to those, except for carmine and I’m trying to avoid animal products. But if there are I’d love to know about them, since mostly I’m familiar with mineral pigments like iron oxides and manganese violets.

  • chemnc

    Member
    April 1, 2017 at 1:08 pm

    Check with DDW. They also have a regulatory department. BTW, turmeric is an ingredient that happens to have color, so it’s not listed as a colorant.

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