Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Anyone else believes CETAC+fatty alcohol is more detangling and conditioning than BTMS?

  • Anyone else believes CETAC+fatty alcohol is more detangling and conditioning than BTMS?

    Posted by gunther on June 6, 2019 at 6:37 pm

    While BTMS-50 exact composition is a trade secret, even for guesstimate formulations that contain about the same Behentrimonium/CETAC I found the latter more detangling and conditioning.
    Maybe it has to do with CETAC being more water soluble than Behentrimonium methosulfate.

    Anyone else feels the same?

    gunther replied 4 years, 6 months ago 4 Members · 10 Replies
  • 10 Replies
  • gunther

    Member
    September 3, 2019 at 7:54 pm

    This one seems to favor CETAC over Behentrimonium

    Cetrimonium chloride gives a light texture, and behetrimonium makes the hair too heavy.
    (Page 171)

    … but after reading this

    they seem to contradict themselves:

    In the first paragraph they state that behentrimonium chloride is a good emulsifier (which it is), but in the last paragraph they say that Behenyl (C22) is a weak emulsifier and cannot produce cream by itself (?)
    So I wonder if they really know what they’re talking about.
    (Page 142)

    https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=QvDxRLtnXVQC&printsec=frontcover&hl=es#v=onepage&q&f=false

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    September 6, 2019 at 12:30 pm

    I guess it’s a matter of personal preferences. I don’t like cetrimonium chloride at all.  However comparing Behentrimonium Chloride and BTMS, I think the chloride is more conditioning.

  • gunther

    Member
    September 9, 2019 at 4:10 pm

    I guess it’s a matter of personal preferences. I don’t like cetrimonium chloride at all.  However comparing Behentrimonium Chloride and BTMS, I think the chloride is more conditioning.

    May I ask why you don’t like Cetrimonium chloride?

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    September 10, 2019 at 5:16 pm

    @Gunther, I don’t see any difference on my hair. I even have a feeling that it tangles my hair even more. 

  • Gene

    Member
    September 11, 2019 at 4:05 am

    Love CETAC in anything 

  • Gene

    Member
    September 11, 2019 at 4:05 am

    Well, I mean anything hair

  • gunther

    Member
    September 11, 2019 at 4:56 pm

    @Gunther, I don’t see any difference on my hair. I even have a feeling that it tangles my hair even more. 

    Have you compared Cetrimonium chloride to Behentrimonium (either methosulfate or chloride) head to head, i.e. everything else being equal in the rest of the formula?

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    September 12, 2019 at 2:50 pm

    I have compared behentrimonium methosulfate and chloride in identical formulas and concluded that chloride is more conditioning. I need to give cetrimonium another try I guess.

  • kot

    Member
    September 16, 2019 at 3:01 pm

      Wondering why is BTMS “exact composition is a trade secret,”? INCI: Behentrimonium Methosulfate (and) Cetyl Alcohol (and) Butylene Glycol.

  • gunther

    Member
    September 17, 2019 at 7:15 pm

    kot said:

      Wondering why is BTMS “exact composition is a trade secret,”? INCI: Behentrimonium Methosulfate (and) Cetyl Alcohol (and) Butylene Glycol.

    Please check out this thread.
    https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/5846/whats-butylene-glycol-function-in-crodas-btms-50/p1

    There’s a link to a Croda patent that hints (or entirely discloses) the most probable BTMS composition.

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