Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Anhydrous paste with amino acids seeps

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  • Anhydrous paste with amino acids seeps

    Posted by sarahrobbins7 on October 30, 2019 at 3:09 pm

    Hi all. I hope you can help me along the right path. I have a paste in an oil base that stays together nicely for a couple of hours and then the oil seeps out of solution. It needs to push through an wide tipped oral syringe easily without separating and creating runny oil with packed solids within the oral syringe. Think “oral paste for horses.” The magnesium and b vitamins are water soluble and I’m trying to suspend them in the oil phase using soy lecithin. 

    B 25% magnesium glycinate
    B 15% B vitamins
    A 35% soybean oil
    A 10% solid/raw coconut oil
    A 12% soy lecithin liquid
    B 3% silicon dioxide

    Mix A, Mix B, combine A/B. 

    Pharma replied 4 years, 8 months ago 4 Members · 11 Replies
  • 11 Replies
  • EVchem

    Member
    October 30, 2019 at 3:34 pm

    Can I ask why you’re using an oil base at all? It looks like just carriers that you’re using to get a thicker viscosity. Coconut oil is probably going to be challenging since it’s melt point is so close to ambient temperatures. You could try a number of other butters/waxes, also personally I have never had success with using soy lecithin for an emulsion.

     Why not water thickened with some kind of natural gum ? Are you hoping for long shelf life?

    Is this actually for horses because I have no idea what their systems can tolerate

  • sarahrobbins7

    Member
    October 30, 2019 at 3:43 pm


    Thanks EVchem. I was trying improve shelf life by avoiding water. Yes, for horses.  I already have a water/glycerin/xathan/methylparaben version that works well. I know some companies are able to accomplish these pastes without aqueous ingredients. I wonder if a heating period is involved? Here’s an example : perfect prep paste (photo)

    as for soy lecithin, it’s not easy. Ive tried powdered and liquid. It does have other beneficial potentiation properties, besides emulsion. 

  • EVchem

    Member
    October 30, 2019 at 7:06 pm

    It could be heating, and the way you this is prepared is probably important as well. A 3 roll mill might work (like how pigments are dispersed  for color cosmetics).  

  • sarahrobbins7

    Member
    October 30, 2019 at 7:29 pm

    Oh that’s interesting about the mill. I hadn’t thought of that. I still think the oil will come out of solution since even nano zinc oxide mixed with oil has that issue. The problem is trying to get water soluble powders to stay evenly suspended in oil. Thanks. 

  • Pharma

    Member
    October 30, 2019 at 8:17 pm

    What do you mean by “the oil seeps out of solution”? Do you mean the paste is ‘sweating’ oil? What’s the melting point of your product or rather, is it only a paste with the suspended ingredients or does the oil phase harden at room temp?

  • Herbnerd

    Member
    October 31, 2019 at 3:35 am

    I have done these kinds of pet products many times and you are on the right track.

    Take a soya oil and increase the viscosity melting glyceryl monostearate, beeswax, hydrogenated vegetable oil or coconut oil until you have a nice gel like consistency (10% GMS generally does this). Make sure the viscosity modifier has melted into it and mixed thoroughly, and cool slowly. Once cooled then you can suspend all your dry ingredients into this. 

    However, as @EVchem says, you may need to mill this. The finer the dry ingredients, the better the dispersion and soy lecithin will help this. I’ve never used that amount of lecithin in this kind of formula 0.5% is sufficient unless you do require that amount of lecithin.

  • sarahrobbins7

    Member
    October 31, 2019 at 6:21 pm

    Herbnerd! Amazing. I’m going to try it now and post back with results. Thank you!!!

  • sarahrobbins7

    Member
    October 31, 2019 at 6:34 pm

    Pharma, it is simply a paste with powders suspended. So the oil separates out of the mix. By the time it reaches my client (day 2), the paste has clumped within the dispensing tube and some of the oil has separated out. When he tries to administer, the paste is not consistant (at first difficult to push, and then separated oil sprays out, then difficult to push the remaining paste) I need it to dispense easily through an oral syringe with a wide tip (see photo) at a wide range of temperatures without solidifying or melting. I’m going to try the GMS as suggested and see what I get. 

  • sarahrobbins7

    Member
    October 31, 2019 at 10:47 pm

    It’s too soo it’s a little soon to tell, but it looks like the powdered ingredients might be starting to settle to the bottom while the oils are staying on top. It could be the ratios of liquid at room temp oil to hydrogenated oil I’m using. 
    I tried
    21g CCT (fractionated coconut oil)
    10g raw coconut oil (solid at room temp)
    3g GMS
    heated to melt and cooled. Then,
    1g liquid soy lecithin
    24g powdered formula (the magnesium glycinate, etc). 

  • Herbnerd

    Member
    November 1, 2019 at 12:08 am

    It’s too soo it’s a little soon to tell, but it looks like the powdered ingredients might be starting to settle to the bottom while the oils are staying on top. It could be the ratios of liquid at room temp oil to hydrogenated oil I’m using. 

    Powdered ingredients will settle if they are heavy enough, but it sounds like you need your powders milled finely as you possibly can. We used to use 200 mesh minerals or finer.

    Possibly a bit more coconut/beeswax/hydrogenated vegetable oils/GMS. We used to use a beeswax/hydrogenated vegetable oil blend. The more viscous, the more it will hold the powders, the more oily it is, the quicker the powders will drop out.

  • Pharma

    Member
    November 1, 2019 at 7:40 pm

    You could try letting the oil phase ‘ripen’ for a day or two. This time is sometimes required for full gelling. Add the powders once it’s ‘solid’. Sedimentation might be quicker than gelling if you add powders in the beginning.

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