Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Adding Glucosides makes Sulfate formulations thinner?

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  • Adding Glucosides makes Sulfate formulations thinner?

    Posted by Gunther on June 13, 2018 at 10:11 pm

    After making an otherwise identical formulation
    I realized the one with Decyl Glucoside is a bit thinner?

    I couldn’t find any tech or sci paper on Glucosides reducing Sulfates viscosity
    Do they?

    Gunther replied 6 years ago 3 Members · 9 Replies
  • 9 Replies
  • Gunther

    Member
    June 14, 2018 at 1:59 pm

    Decyl Glucoside seems to thin out an otherwise identical low sulfate formula:

    60% deionized water
    0.1% EDTA Na-4
    0.4% Sodium Benzoate
    1.5% SLS powder
    5% Texapon N70 (3.5% active SLES) = (5% total active sulfates 1.5% SLS + 3.5% SLES)
    10% Bcare 2000 (about 5% active Decyl Glucoside)
    16.7% Dehyton K (5% active CAPB)

    Next time I will try adding CAPB before Decyl Glucoside
    to check its prior viscosity
    but so far it looks like glucosides do thin low sulfate formulas.

  • Gunther

    Member
    June 14, 2018 at 3:08 pm

    Adding Decyl glucoside to a previously made too-thick formulation
    2.25% SLS
    5.25 active SLES
    6% active CAPB
    immediately thins it out, almost becomes water-thin.

    This books shows that glucosides lower viscosity, unless glucosides comprise 60% of the surfactant mixture, or sorbitol hexastearate are added, and even so the viscosity builds up and lowers sharply (hit or miss)
    https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=bgRC9L3L5M0C&pg=PA442&lpg=PA442&dq=decyl+glucoside+reduce+viscosity&source=bl&ots=glcTyHLqey&sig=95mgB5XuKF-6Me5iMs1Gf_jdzrI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhz-ilrdPbAhUCORQKHWQTBsw4ChDoAQg9MAE#v=onepage&q=decyl%20glucoside%20reduce%20viscosity&f=true

    So Glucosides don’t seem compatible with anionics, unless you’re looking for intentionally water-thin formulations, i.e. for foamer bottles.

  • Gunther

    Member
    June 14, 2018 at 3:43 pm
  • belassi

    Member
    June 14, 2018 at 4:02 pm

    Lamesoft PO65 contains coco-glucoside and is compatible with anionics. Not to mention the shampoo base I use:
    Plantaren® APB is a high active surfactant concentrate containing an optimal combination of high foaming anionic surfactants, a high purity alkanolamide and an alkyl polyglycoside.

  • Chemist77

    Member
    June 15, 2018 at 6:41 am

    I have a similar product like the one @Belassi mentioned except that instead of alkanolamide it has CAPB. The product is one of the best I have used. Comes from LG chemical division. 

  • Gunther

    Member
    June 15, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    Plantapon 611 has Sodium Laureth Sulfate (and) Cocamidopropyl Betaine (and) Coco-Glucoside
    https://www.carecreations.basf.com/product-formulations/products/products-detail/PLANTAPON%20611%20C/30531299
    and reportedly, it can build a decent viscosity.

    Too bad it’s unavailable here, so I’ll have to mix them myself.
    Decyl glucoside may yield better results too.

    This paper gives some interesting anionic+glucoside formulations. I may try those without Xanthan gum.
    http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_08d4/0901b803808d4a98.pdf?filepath=personalcare/pdfs/noreg/324-00452.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc

    I’ve tried this formula, and it has some viscosity, not totally water-thin

    60% deionized water
    0.1% EDTA Na-4
    0.4% Sodium benzoate
    1.5% SLS powder (1.5% active SLS)
    5% Texapon N70 gel (3.5% active SLES)
    16.7% Dehyton K (5% active CAPB)
    10% Bcare 2000 (about 5% active Decyl Glucoside)
    citric acid qs to pH 5
    water qs to 100%
    Salt didn’t seem to further thicken it.

    It felt GREAT, not too degreasing, great flash and cream foam, smooth.
    So I’m willing to tweak it to make it thicker.

    In contrast to this one being water-thin
    80% deionized water
    0.1% EDTA Na-4
    0.4$ Sodium benzoate
    1% SLS powder ( 1% active SLS )
    4.28% Texapon N70 gel (3% active SLES )
    8% Bcare 2000 ( about 4% active Decyl Glucoside )
    10% Dehyton K ( 3% active CAPB )
    citric acid qs to pH 5
    water qs to 100%.

  • Gunther

    Member
    June 15, 2018 at 8:38 pm

    Glucosides move the SLES salt curve to the left, and lower peak viscosity (but who’s going to use 7% salt anyhow.


    https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=6P12tXK8JqQC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=“sodium+laureth+sulfate”+”betaine”+”glucoside”+viscosity&source=bl&ots=e2fiwlEWR8&sig=oJhcr8SvV6N5o172Psk2xLMCf2I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIwOHwv9bbAhURalAKHfGHC4E4HhDoAQhAMAU#v=onepage&q=”sodium%20laureth%20sulfate”%20″betaine”%20″glucoside”%20viscosity&f=true

  • belassi

    Member
    June 15, 2018 at 9:08 pm

    Thanks for that interesting info. For me, the salt curve is a difficult thing to calculate because so many things = salt. EG, sodium benzoate. It is one thing to be working theoretically but the minute you begin adding additional electrolytes it all gets messed up.

  • Gunther

    Member
    June 17, 2018 at 4:26 pm

    Glucosides definitely move the salt curve to the right (and maybe lower peak viscosity as well)

     In the past, I’ve tried the following formula without any glucosides,
    and it visibly thickened just by adding Coco-Betaine / CAPB, requiring 0.5-0.75% to achieve the desired viscosity.

    Now just added 2% salt (in 0.25% increments) and still doesn’t reach proper viscosity.

    50 % deionized water

    0.1% EDTA Na-4

    0.4% Sodium Benzoate

    2.5% SLS powder

    8.43% Texapon N70 gel ( 5.9% active SLES )

    ( SLS+SLES = 8.4% total sulfates )

    10% Bcare2000 ( about 5% active Decyl Glucoside )

    10% Dehyton K ( 3% active CAPB )

     While for now I left it resting undisturbed to allow for bubbles to dissipate,
    I will add further salt beyond 2% and post results.

    But the result is clear: glucosides move the salt curve to the right (and possibly lower peak viscosity too).

    Maybe not entirely a bad thing. It may prove useful for conditioning shampoos containing anionics + cationics, which often form a viscous slime.

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