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A view that Chemists shouldn’t formulate natural skincare. Only cellular biologists.
I came accross this article via google scholar. I was wondering what the opinion was from Chemists that formulate natural cosmetics?
https://www.oumere.com/blogs/news/your-natural-non-toxic-skin-care-is-extremely-cytotoxic
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29 Replies
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Don’t waste your time with these kind of advertising articles.
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this is marketing material.
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If someone is trying to sell you something, their opinion about a subject should be viewed suspiciously. This is not to say that the person is lying, but you can be certain you are not getting the full picture of whatever subject they are opining on.
I was a biology major then switched to chemistry in my final year in college. Every chemistry major had to take biology too and had to learn how to read biology research papers. Her claims about the abilities of different scientists are ridiculous.
Also, practically nothing I learned in biology or chemistry was directly helpful in my job as a cosmetic chemist or formulator. College does not teach you about specific ingredients, formulating, what’s best for skin or hair or anything else about making products.
There are some valid points about essential oils, extracts, etc. but there is a lot of BS too. For example physical scrubs do not cause cell death & foaming has nothing to do with surfactant’s “destruction of skin”
Overall, I find the author of this paper to be immature and insecure.
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this is written by someone who has no experience in the industry whatsoever, whose deductive reasoning skills are very poor, and despite having a master’s degree in a hard science, is apparently unaware that natural hormonal changes can cause changes in skin temperament over timewhat a load of cobblers -
also, I am all for making web pages legible and find tiny text irritatingly hard to read, but this website goes to the other extreme - the pictures and font size are ENORMOUS on my screen
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I mean… their cleanser has coco betaine…
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Very confusing article. At least they said that essential oils are cytotoxic and witch hazel has no place in modern skincare.
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Think the guy got confused between witch hazel and witchcraft ??
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They are dishonest too
They “forgot”to mention that their cleanser contains NaOH or something alkaline enough to saponify oils
INGREDIENTS:Aloe barbadensis leaf juice*, water*, watermelon seed oil*, grapeseed oil*, castor oil*, calendula oil*, walnut oil*, Camellia Japonica oil*, coco betaine*, cocaminodopropylamine oxide*, phenyoxyethanol, sorbic acid*, caprylyl glycol*
https://www.oumere.com/pages/ingredients-oil-dissolution-theorySoap?
It’s funny because they disregard soap because of it’s high pH7. Foaming agents in cleansers
Foaming cleansers are destructive to the skin because they weaken the very defense that protects skin from bacteria: it’s pH. Foaming cleansers are alkaline, and take your skin from a healthy, bacteria-fighting acidity, to a weak alkaline state that is vulnerable to bacteria. Those with bacterial acne and other skin ailments have a skin whose pH is too high, which breaks skin cells down. I always tell people, cleansing your skin will not cure acne, but using the wrong cleanser can create acne (or make existing acne worse).
https://www.oumere.com/blogs/news/your-natural-non-toxic-skin-care-is-extremely-cytotoxic
Aloe barbadensis (Aloe vera) leaf juice?
They don’t seem to realize that the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC lists Aloe Vera whole leaf extract as a Class 2B possible carcinogen
https://monographs.iarc.fr/list-of-classifications-volumes/
Group 2B: The agent is possibly carcinogenic to humans.
There is limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans and less than sufficient evidence in experimental animals. It may also be used if there is inadequate evidence in humans but sufficient evidence in experimental animals. Occasionally, an agent (or mixture) may be placed in group 2B if there is inadequate evidence in humans and less than sufficient evidence in experimental animals but there is supporting evidence of carcinogenicity from mechanistic and other relevant data. An agent or a mixture may also be classified in this category solely on the basis of strong evidence of carcinogenicity from mechanistic and other relevant data
https://monographs.iarc.fr/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/CurrentPreamble.pdf
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Do not let someone ‘s opinions stop your interests. If you are interested in skincare formulation you should do and learn.
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@Dtdang - of course, being misinformed about a subject is usually worse than being uninformed about a subject.
,"y":41,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":3655}”> -
The article has some valuable points:
we need to understand the % fatty acids profile of natural oils we used to formulate. Never overload the oleic acids that can cause acne, dark spots,…we also need to understand the active ingredients that can effect the skin in the good ways. -
She has some good points regarding her list of “do not included ingredients” … Essential Oils, unbalanced Linoleic/Oleic Oil combinations, overall pH balance and her products are well-formulated for the most part. They appear to be 2 phase systems as she does not use emulsifiers, so they must be shake well before use to mix the oil and water phases.
Where she is going off the rails, and is it pure marketing schtick on her part, is that chemists do not have the skill set to formulate good cosmetic products nor understand skin biology as she completely disregards the fact that most all learning is self-taught and is a life long experience. The implication is that because you have a degree in chemistry, that you are incapable of learning or understanding skin biology and that you stop learning at the end of your degree, which is patently absurd. But, again, that is part of her marketing.
I do have to laugh at her dig at the profit motivation of skin care developers when her own products are priced at $100 to $200 per ounce and require no more skill than pouring a fixed set ingredients into a beaker. All one need do is some research on ingredients and ingredient combinations to develop a similar suite of products … basically, that’s something any trained scientist in chemistry, biology and related fields is capable of doing. I mean, how many years of scientific training does one need to come to the conclusion that putting Cilantro Extract in a skin care concoction could be beneficial to the skin?
By the way, someone should inform her that Aloe Vera Juice has absolutely no scientifically-proven skin care benefit, and can potentially be harmful if it is not aloin-free.
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OH dear, love apoptosis is not cell death caused from Essential Oils, apoptosis is programmed cell death. Just like when leaves fall of a tree. The proper word for cell death, meaning a cell that is killed (by as you say Essential Oils) is called autolysis and lysis being the general word for cell death i.e.rupture of the cell wall or membrane.So when you come to a forum such as this why don’t you sharpen up your own skills with in your own specialisation.I have studied chemistry, zoology, marine biology, environmental science, did a PhD and then a Research Fellow. However, the chemists on this site know a lot more than I do most of the time.I suggest you find your own cellular forum and stop saying words you don’t know what they mean and write a real paper from a peer reviewed journal. Then when you have written that and had it critiqued by professionals in the field, then come and talk to us.Until that time, stop being sooo rude to my well -educated colleagues.What an embarrassment!!
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@”Dr Catherine Pratt” - I don’t think the author was the one who posted the article. It was put up by someone who stumbled onto it while doing some Google searching.
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Oh you guys know I get a bit Passionate about things!
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Thank you Perry for your answer, very informative to hear about how the subjects cross over in the final year and your opinion on exfoliation.
Perry said:If someone is trying to sell you something, their opinion about a subject should be viewed suspiciously. This is not to say that the person is lying, but you can be certain you are not getting the full picture of whatever subject they are opining on.I was a biology major then switched to chemistry in my final year in college. Every chemistry major had to take biology too and had to learn how to read biology research papers. Her claims about the abilities of different scientists are ridiculous.
Also, practically nothing I learned in biology or chemistry was directly helpful in my job as a cosmetic chemist or formulator. College does not teach you about specific ingredients, formulating, what’s best for skin or hair or anything else about making products.
There are some valid points about essential oils, extracts, etc. but there is a lot of BS too. For example physical scrubs do not cause cell death & foaming has nothing to do with surfactant’s “destruction of skin”
Overall, I find the author of this paper to be immature and insecure.
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Thank you Dr Catherine Pratt for your passion and knowledge on apoptosis as
programmed cell death, very interesting to hear about how people get
these details wrong and it is generally not pick up on in a consumer
context.Dr Catherine Pratt said:Oh you guys know I get a bit Passionate about things! -
Thank you Mark for the informative comment, really interesting to hear your opinion on the formulating skill from a cost/skills analysis perspective.MarkBroussard said:She has some good points regarding her list of “do not included ingredients” … Essential Oils, unbalanced Linoleic/Oleic Oil combinations, overall pH balance and her products are well-formulated for the most part. They appear to be 2 phase systems as she does not use emulsifiers, so they must be shake well before use to mix the oil and water phases.
Where she is going off the rails, and is it pure marketing schtick on her part, is that chemists do not have the skill set to formulate good cosmetic products nor understand skin biology as she completely disregards the fact that most all learning is self-taught and is a life long experience. The implication is that because you have a degree in chemistry, that you are incapable of learning or understanding skin biology and that you stop learning at the end of your degree, which is patently absurd. But, again, that is part of her marketing.
I do have to laugh at her dig at the profit motivation of skin care developers when her own products are priced at $100 to $200 per ounce and require no more skill than pouring a fixed set ingredients into a beaker. All one need do is some research on ingredients and ingredient combinations to develop a similar suite of products … basically, that’s something any trained scientist in chemistry, biology and related fields is capable of doing. I mean, how many years of scientific training does one need to come to the conclusion that putting Cilantro Extract in a skin care concoction could be beneficial to the skin?
By the way, someone should inform her that Aloe Vera Juice has absolutely no scientifically-proven skin care benefit, and can potentially be harmful if it is not aloin-free.
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Dtdang said:The article has some valuable points:
we need to understand the % fatty acids profile of natural oils we used to formulate. Never overload the oleic acids that can cause acne, dark spots,…we also need to understand the active ingredients that can effect the skin in the good ways.Thank you for this comment, it is good to have this point reiterated and to have it clear in my mind when analyzing formulas. Although I don’t formulate myself I have a keen interest in chemists and as a Green Practitioner of Make-up Artistry I have to look at the back of many many different packets of products to quickly figure out which ones are well formulated.
I will try to get together some sort of simple list of a way of working out if it is balanced. Have you personally come across any common mistakes in this sort of formulation?Thank you also Mark for your comments on the same subject.PSMark, I have seen many many formulations with Aloe Vera Juice and it is only labeled with organic credentials, no mention of ‘aloin free’. Is it worth emailing the brands that contain this or do you recommend avoiding all together?Perhaps the organic credentials signify a more careful extraction of just the gelly and not the Aloin part.MarkBroussard said:She has some good points regarding her list of “do not included ingredients” … Essential Oils, unbalanced Linoleic/Oleic Oil combinations, overall pH balance and her products are well-formulated for the most part. They appear to be 2 phase systems as she does not use emulsifiers, so they must be shake well before use to mix the oil and water phases.Where she is going off the rails, and is it pure marketing schtick on her part, is that chemists do not have the skill set to formulate good cosmetic products nor understand skin biology as she completely disregards the fact that most all learning is self-taught and is a life long experience. The implication is that because you have a degree in chemistry, that you are incapable of learning or understanding skin biology and that you stop learning at the end of your degree, which is patently absurd. But, again, that is part of her marketing.
I do have to laugh at her dig at the profit motivation of skin care developers when her own products are priced at $100 to $200 per ounce and require no more skill than pouring a fixed set ingredients into a beaker. All one need do is some research on ingredients and ingredient combinations to develop a similar suite of products … basically, that’s something any trained scientist in chemistry, biology and related fields is capable of doing. I mean, how many years of scientific training does one need to come to the conclusion that putting Cilantro Extract in a skin care concoction could be beneficial to the skin?
By the way, someone should inform her that Aloe Vera Juice has absolutely no scientifically-proven skin care benefit, and can potentially be harmful if it is not aloin-free.
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Certified Organic Aloe Vera Juice is commonly used in products to “jack up” the organic content if you are trying to get organic certification on your final product. It’s an expensive approach since you can only use liquid aloe vera juice and not the organic powder. But, aloin in aloe vera juice is a potential carcinogen and aloe vera juice has no proven skin benefit. So, it’s really a marketing label ingredient as most consumers think that aloe vera is skin-beneficial and/or strategic ingredient if you are targeting organic certification. I suspect companies do not highlight “Aloin-Free” Aloe Vera Juice to not draw attention to the issue.
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@MarkBroussard , thanks for your informative comments.
But I would like to express my view about Alovera . It is well known that Alovera is a very good astringent , humactant, moisturiser, it has soothing effect , it is noncomedogenic and very much skin friendly and therapeutic . It has so many virtues . It is also beneficial to hair also . -
If you review the scientific literature on studies done of Aloe Vera you will find that none of those purported skin benefits of Aloe Vera have been substantiated in clinical testing.
Perry posted a thread on it a while back … a professor at University of Florida compiled an extensive review of the research on Aloe Vera and the conclusion was that it has no evidence-based skin benefit.
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Here you go:
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