WHAT IS WRONG???

Hi, 

I'm working on a roll-on formulation. I can not dissolve Aluminium Chlorohydrate. ıt's powder. ı have tried different percentages like 8%, 10%, 20%. I use a mixture as a thickener ( Hydroxyethyl Acrylate / Sodium Acryloyldimethyl Taurate Copolymer , Isohexadecane, Polysorbate 60)
There is also not enough thickening.

So, what's wrong?

Comments

  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @filiz take a look for  industrial formulations then try to copy your best industrial product it will be helpful. 
  • Hi @Fekher ; Where can you recommend as a source?
  • Vichy uses it in many of their antiperspirants. Have a look what else is there
  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    Do you have water in your formula? Aluminium Chlorohydrate is very soluble in water. It is often sold as a 50% solution.

    Here is a starting formula that might be of interest



  • Hi @ozgirl ;
    below is my formula:

    Aqua
    Cyclopentasiloxane
    Aluminium chlorohydrate
    C12-13 Alkyl Lactat
    Hydroxyethyl Acrylate / Sodium Acryloyldimethyl Taurate Copolymer , Isohexadecane, Polysorbate 60 (Thickener mix)
    TEA


  • Hi @ngarayeva001 ;

    This is the only deodorant active I have right now. I will actively search for a new one after finding out where the problem is caused :smile:

    the point is that I dissolve the thickener in half the formula water. I'm resolving ACH with the other half. After combining the two mixes, I leave it for a long mixing process. White residues remain, which are insoluble and settle to the bottom.
    my formula exists in the above case. Do you have any suggestion for this?

  • I would say your thickener is not so much a thickener as it is a stabilizer.  In my experience using it, I haven't seen a huge increase in viscosity when adding it to my formulas but maybe it is just formula dependent? 
  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    Is your thickener suitable for use with antiperspirants? The example given in the Simugel FL datasheet for electrolyte resistance shows data for 0.4 and 0.6% NaCl. This is significantly lower than 8% to 20% Aluminium Chlorhydrate suggesting that your thickener is the problem.

    It is more likely that the acrylate polymers are crashing out rather than your aluminium chlorohydrate.

  • @ozgirl ;  @mhart123 When I talked to my raw material supplier, she said that the magnetic stirrer is not sufficient for mixing. 
    She said different thickeners wouldn't work either without high speed mixing.
    Do you think the problem could be entirely due to this??
  • filiz said:
    @ozgirl ;  @mhart123 When I talked to my raw material supplier, she said that the magnetic stirrer is not sufficient for mixing. 
    She said different thickeners wouldn't work either without high speed mixing.
    Do you think the problem could be entirely due to this??
    Possibly, but you won't know first-hand until you try it.
    Give it a go with a cheap hand blender/stick blender and see whether it still exhibits the same issues. It might end up foamy for a day so leave it sit and see what results.
  • 8%, 10%, 20% Aluminium Chlorohydrate powder - very high electrolyte, you will need a specific emulsifier designed for that job.

    For DIYing a cheap hand blender/stick blender will do.
  • This product has a high amount of aluminum chlorohydrate https://www.vichy.co.uk/en_GB/cream-7-day-anti-perspirant-deodorant/VICUK-082.html?dwvar_VICUK-082_size=30ml#tab=Tabs_fb1rfrf2d3l_control_2

    INGREDIENTS: AQUA / WATER • ALUMINUM CHLOROHYDRATE • ALUMINUM SESQUICHLOROHYDRATE • CETYL ALCOHOL • PEG-100 STEARATE • GLYCERYL STEARATE • SORBITOL • DIMETHICONE • PARFUM / FRAGRANCE • BENZYL ALCOHOL • IODOPROPYNYL BUTYLCARBAMATE (F.I.L. C26796/2).

    Arlacel 165 seems to be an answer to most questions.
  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    I don't think that the issue is due to stirring speed but more likely incompatibility of your emulsifier with high electrolyte levels. Did you check with your supplier on this?

    A combination of Steareth-2 and Steareth-20 are often used in antiperspirants. For example this Dove Antiperspirant Roll-On Deodorant Original

    Water, Aluminum Chlorohydrate, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Glycerin. Steareth-2, Fragrance, Steareth-20, Tocopheryl Acetate.


  • @ngarayeva001 ;
    Thank you for your suggestion. But I think hot process is required for this emulsifier. whereas I have to work cold process.

    I have seen in previous R&D reports that there are no problems when using Hydroxyethylcellulose in formulas with ACH. however, high speed mixing was used. 

    speed of mixing also makes me think. I have to make sure of the emulsifier before requesting a new purchase for the mixer. 
  • hi @ozgirl ;I haven't received an answer from my supplier yet. When I looked at the SIMULGEL INS100 report it was a serrated disk scrambler procedure.


    I think the combination of Steareth-2 and Steareth-20 is suitable for cold process?


  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @filiz for sure for Steareth-2 and Steareth-20 you need to go to hot process cause both are solid emulsifiers which need heating. 
  • Hi @Fekher
    Do you have any suggestion of emülsifier suitable for cold process ?
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    I guess @ngarayeva001 can help more about that. Unless take a look for cold process emulsifiers 
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