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Effect of high pH soap
Part of a piece in Dermatology Times:
Soap is an anionic surfactant with a high alkaline pH, which in turn causes swelling of the stratum corneum. This swelling allows unwanted deeper penetration of the soap into the skin possibly causing irritation and itching. Soap also binds to stratum corneum proteins further inducing swelling and hyper-hydration of the skin. Following the completion of bathing, the excess water evaporates leading to skin tightness. Thus, tightness is a sign of skin dryness because soap binding reduces the ability of the skin proteins to hold water. This explains why continued use of the alkaline cleanser on a daily basis in conjunction with hot water can lead to eczematous skin disease.
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27 Replies
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Very interesting. I often wonder about the effect of pH in soap. I make and sell artisan shaving soap on a hobbyist level and often hear the praises of “high quality, handmade shaving soap” over modern alternatives. I’ve wondered how much is the placebo effect after buying a product with better packaging, a more “fun” shaving routine, and a higher price. (That said, shaving cream from a can contains stuff that isn’t good for your skin too).
I wonder if it’s possible to make traditional soap but bring the pH down with citric or something similar and throw some preservatives in it.
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I wonder if it’s possible to make traditional soap but bring the pH down with citric or something similar and throw some preservatives in it.
If you try that, you will see why it isn’t possible. The reaction is reversible, the soap splits into free fatty acids and becomes an unpleasant goop. -
There always will be people who prefer soap. I think it is an outdated technology though.
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I have seen it ngarayeva001 said:
There always will be people who prefer soap. I think it is an outdated technology though.Yes, but it doesn’t have a replacement.
This concept applies not only to soap, but any alkaline product in contact with the skin on regular basis.
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Well, soap’s purpose is to clean our skin. Modern surfactants do clean skin and gentle, means there’s a replacement. Or I am missing something?
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ngarayeva001 said:There always will be people who prefer soap. I think it is an outdated technology though.We make and sell a lot of traditional cold-process soap. Outdated maybe, but it sells. Is there any other reason to make new or old technology soap?Agreed, its a niche market.Effects of long term use? For me 30+ years. Plus thousands of customers. No one is compaining of the symptoms described by @Belassi -
Not ‘described by’ me. It was a Dermatology Times article.
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I have family members who are refusing to use anything else but traditional soap bars. I personally have not been using soap for probably 10 years (unless I am in someone’s house and that’s all they have) because I do experience all the symptoms described in the article shared by @Belassi
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I would rather go for a poorly formulate product with SLS (the cheap kind that is impossible to wash off) than a high pH soap. But I understand that there’s a market for this product, so it should be produced.
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Format and price my friend. I see your point, but from an industrial perspective that’s unrealistic.
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The ‘Dermatology Times’ in blue is a link to the article.
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ngarayeva001 said:The ‘Dermatology Times’ in blue is a link to the article.OK, got it. ThanksHave looked at this article. In my opinion ‘Dermatology Times’ does not appear to be a legitimate scientific journal. After 40 years as a scientist, I have a fair idea of what a scientific paper looks like.Have I missed anything? It’s always possible.
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@mikethair - DT is not a scientific journal. It is more of a trade journal aimed at dermatologists. However, many of the articles are written by dermatologists so it’s a good source for basic information and summaries of the latest research.
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People are different and skin is different. Some people are using high alkaline soap their entire life and have no issues at all. Others, like me experience all sympthoms described in the article. So, both type of products should exist.
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@Belassi I have a question. I’m a new employee in a cosmetics company. My boss wants to produce the traditional soap, I found the PH was so high and when the boss tried it his hand irritated, so; I added citric acid until the PH came down to 8.5
What do you think of it?? -
@S_AlAhdab, it is a very good question. I was wondering how low you can go until the soap becomes unstable.
@mikethair, would you mind commenting as a soap expert? Can the pH of the traditional soap be decreased?
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It is difficult to measure the actual pH of solid soap. If you lower the pH it will become less stable and at some point break down.
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I think it’s a really problem that we approach cleaning the body in much the same way approach cleaning inanimate objects.
Our skin is a biome, and many of the methods we use to clean it seriously impact it’s homeostasis. (I think my biology background is showing)
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@Soexcited - It’s certainly true that soap and cleansing changes up the skin’s microbiome but I wonder, is that bad? We’ve been doing it for at least a couple hundred years. What has been the negative effect on the human population?
Perhaps we have more skin conditions than previous populations, but I imagine we also have less infections and spread of diseases.
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The lower infection and spread of disease is primarily due to improvements in sanitation like plumbing so we don’t contaminate our water sources. And don’t get me wrong, a foamy, sudsy shower after camping for a camping for a week may be one of the best feelings in the WORLD!
But I think we would be healthier and more comfortable if we used daily bathing methods that helped our skin maintain homeostasis of the skin’s acid mantle and saved the soap based cleaning for about once a week or when we are truly dirty.
Of course that excludes hand washing with soap and any type of anti-contamination protocols. Those should always be done
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Absolutely! Let’s go back to Roman times. It will be great standing naked while a slave slathers olive oil all over me and then scrapes it off with a blunt knife.
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Belassi said:Absolutely! Let’s go back to Roman times. It will be great standing naked while a slave slathers olive oil all over me and then scrapes it off with a blunt knife.One must smell nice at the Vomitorium. -
Belassi said:Absolutely! Let’s go back to Roman times. It will be great standing naked while a slave slathers olive oil all over me and then scrapes it off with a blunt knife.
I was thinking more using a non-comedogenic body butter a bit before showering and then exfolating off the excess in the shower, but I support you living your best life!
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@Belassi well actually we are making it in a liquid form not solid. It’s been 2 weeks since I added the citric acid and I’m monitoring it, until now it didn’t separate
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