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Can Preservative Cap-5 or Cap-2 also work as an emulsifier
I have a Argan/Rosehip Oil and Coconut water serum that I usually just shake before using, would either of these preservatives work as an emulsifying agent as well?
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32 Replies
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Not at all.
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what about Stearic Acid? Ive never worked with it before, would this work and how is best incorporated….water, oil? Not at all?
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Definitely not intermediate.
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No, that’s not an emulsifier either. You need to start studying this if you intend continuing with cosmetic formulation.
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I apologize for my ignorance. I’m new at the skincare/lotion aspect of making cosmetics, I mostly do the “color”, i.e. eyeshadows, eyeliners, lipstick, etc. That is why I am asking these questions before I make something incredibly dangerous and bad. I had a stint as a soap-maker, and know about the dangers that would lie ahead of mixing chemicals, acids and bases, etc. all will-nilly. I was consulting everyone for a gentle way to emulsify oils and water, without the threat of burning one’s skin off. Sorry if I misled you in thinking I was inexperienced, and I am in THIS arena. Again, my apologies
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Best to begin by taking a look at SwiftCraftyMonkey. Find formulae for what you want to make. Then see if you can find the required ingredients. Obtain them, and try it out. Experimentation with ingredients teaches you how the ingredients work and what their effects are. For instance there are TWO approaches to the problem you began with. One solution is to emulsify; the other is to solubilise.
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Thank you for the link to the website. Can you suggest a plebian method of solubilizing oil and water?
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Solubilizing oil and water doesn’t lend itself to a simpler approach. You can’t oversimplify the process. When you gain some experience, you will see that there are myriad questions and factors that need to be addressed further.
The returning error is in continually believing there is a simple workaround. There simply is not.
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Again, I apologize for my ignorance in this area
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@arachne013
No offence, but I thought you wrote your skills in formulating were intermediate? If you would have intermediate experience in ‘colour’ cosmetics I think you would have had the basic knowledge to your first question.Really there’s no need to apologize. What is it today that people seem ashamed to admit they are beginners?
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My questions was for more of a serum, not a lotion, cream or any “hard” product….a stable, viscous fluid. I know about formulating oil in water in lipstick using waxes, etc, I just didn’t know if the same rules apply when formulating something more liquid….I was researching if you CAN include waxes in a product such as a serum, as I have not seen it on any of my labels…and from what I read, some of the ingredients in these preservatives can also act an emulsifier (unless I have read some misinformation in my searches) as well as a preservative. I am a beginner to skincare, my closest experience is with powder, not anything close to a serum. the ingredients are coconut & rosewater with argan & rosehip oil, and I’ve been just shaking it, but it would have been nice to have them mixed together in a stable state. If it is not possible, I am fine with that, even making it miscible would be satisfactory. And I figured if I were to get correct information in my education in this area, this site would provide amazing and correct results instead of the load of misinformation on various websites that pop up when you use a search engine, not barbs at my experience (or rather inexperience)
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I didn’t know if a saponification process or a wax was necessary or not for them to “get together”
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@arachne013 I can understand if you might feel a little ganged up on, but there are some pearls here.
Cosmetic Science is indeed a “Science”, one which requires some study and some understanding of the Fundamentals. Indeed, I will use parts of Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, and other Scientific disciplines on a daily basis. If you skip or gloss over the fundamentals, it will make it harder to understand how the raw materials work, their interaction with other materials, safety, stability and other factors.
Even a recent Chemistry graduate would have a learning curve as well when entering the Cosmetic field. Many of the raw materials are unique to this market, have unique distributors and in addition, there is a great deal of marketing which you must incorporate into the development of the Formulation.
No offense intended, but rather this next statement is meant to ground you and direct you. One of the key tenets of learning is knowing what you do NOT know. You must accept that you are entry level at best into this field and act accordingly. Refusing to do this and overestimating your abilities will become a barrier to future learning. There is no real and effective shortcut here. It simply does not exist.
So, you state that you are looking for proper guidance in the Industry. As someone mentioned before, Susan Barclay Nichols’s blog (http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/) is a great starting point. Look at some of her starting Formulations and repeat them. During the process, look at each ingredient and find credible resources on them in order to learn their properties. If you don’t have a raw material in her Formulas, GET IT. You still have some skills to master before you start looking for alternatives. Honestly, I would suggest that you do this for 3-6 month before even looking back at your product. Depending on your geographic location (this board attracts followers worldwide), there may be some courses that you can take.
Once you gain some experience and look back at your initial posts, you will see why they evoked such a strong instinct from experienced Formulators to tell you to slow down. For example, a product which must be shaken before use is really not stable or even consistent. Consumers will not likely shake a product and you can’t ensure that you exerted enough agitation to create a consistent product or “dosage” of the actives. Throwing out some materials and asking “is this an emulsifier?” shows a need to go back to basics.
Cosmetics and Cosmetic Chemistry can be a great market to work within. Remember though that we must always ensure that we are giving the customer (or family) a safe, effective and consistent product. This is the real reason that many of us are urging you to slow down and return to basics. If you fail to do that, your products and their safety will be compromised. If you do so, your products and their safety will advance slowly as your experience and knowledge grow accordingly.
I will sum it up and please keep in mind the reasons above. YOU ARE NOT READY YET TO MAKE A PRODUCT. DO the base work. There is no real safe and effective shortcut here. Cosmetic Science needs to be respected. Just because you can find a blog on it doesn’t mean it isn’t complicated. When applied correctly and coherently, real Cosmetic Safety is up there with any of the Professional fields. You wouldn’t neuter a pet by simply watching a few Youtube videos. Accordingly, you shouldn’t expose a Cosmetic user to an unsafe or ineffective product based on the false assumption of “this is easy and anyone can do it.” That is a quick recipe for failure.
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I completely agree and understand where you are coming from. I am still learning in the skincare area. I just figured this was the place to ask questions and get real answers, not feel ridiculed. I know I can’t watch a YouTube video and then expect to be able to do it myself. As I said before, I was a soap-maker and that took a while to master. I’m trying, as said before, to copy a commercial product, which has been suggested to do, and with as few ingredients as possible in which to gain experience. I’m an aware of my limitations. But there’s no reason to be sharp with someone who is coming to this site and posting, seeming inane and stupid questions, just because they are still learning. I figured this was the place to do so. Ask questions from the people who do this for a living and are more experienced. And I apologize if my inquiries seem as something that makes common sense to this community, but, again, I thought this was the place to share knowledge.
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The first thing to do if you want help is to list the ingredients in proper percentage form, including preservatives. You should also specify whether you want a clear product or if an emulsified (milky) product would be OK. In either case, there is a large number of possible ingredients that could work.
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If it is clear or milky, it doesn’t matter, just a viscous fluid. the list of ingredients are:
Ingredients: Argania Spinosa (Argan) Kernel Oil, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Water, Alcohol Denat., Sodium Chloride, Leuconostoc/Radish Root Ferment Filtrate, Tocopheryl Acetate, Water, Leuconostoc Ferment Filtrate, Fragrance.
I was going to replace the Leuconosatic Ferment with either Cap-2 or Cap-5 (just to see if it would work in its place & because I already have it on-hand but both in limited amoutns) and in my original question, would either of these two preservatives (and if so, which one) would have the effect that I was looking for as well as acting as its original function
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I didn’t mention the rose aspect: (Rosa Centifolia) and Rosehip (Rosa canina) oil
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I’m not really looking to sell my products, they are more for personal use or gifts, but I don’t want to give a gift of burning one’s face off (or my own)
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in my original question, would either of these two preservatives (and if so, which one) would have the effect that I was looking for as well as acting as its original function
- i already answered that…
… radish stuff is not a proper preservative. You may be getting away with it because of the ethanol content but you failed to list percentage use so, I am unable to comment. -
The ingredient list didn’t include any percentages
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When I originally got the bottle, it looked like a 50/50 water soluble to oil soluble….which percentages of the oils and waters that make up those percentages were not listed
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I would recommend using your Argan and Rosehip Oils to create an oil based facial serum (something like this http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com.au/2009/11/facial-serum-for-dry-skin.html).
I would then recommend starting to learn about emulsification by starting with creating a basic lotion (http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/newbie-tuesday-its-time-to-make-lotion.html).
Once you have the basics mastered you can move on to more complex products.
It can be beneficial to look at ingredient lists in commercial products to learn about the different functions of ingredients but you also need to remember that these products were created by experienced formulators with equipment and ingredients that you may not have access to. These products cannot often be recreated by beginners.
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Ok, awesome, thanks for the links. I will definitely check them out.
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This is a place to ask questions and get real answers. And that’s exactly what you got. What you need to understand is this is a forum with a cientific approach, and we stick to the cientific methods. Maybe you expected that someone would tell you “use X material at Y percentage”. We consider that irresponsible, and ultimately is for your own safety, either you understand why or not.
It’s not that you are asking basic questions, it’s that you are asking questions that don’t make sense. If you ask a baker “I bought flour, a spoon and a cow, how do I make a cake?” don’t get offended if the baker tells you to take cooking lessons first.
Here is a good place to start: Learn to formulate cosmetics
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Again, thanks for the links
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