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Thanks, just got four different pre mixed pigments from making cosmetics (black, yellow and red), plus their brown blend. Will see how they work out compared to Creasperse.

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Thanks @Makingskincare will look into those links. My current formula using Creasperse is not so far off, so might go with a MOQ order if I can get away with using only one of their blends (the darker one). for at least a couple of different shades.

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DNA synthesis is a vital part of cell life. In studies done in vivo and in vitro, 
l-proline (<200 d) was found to be the only amino acid that was involved in the stimulation of DNA synthesis. 28 Furthermore, EGF elicited no response without the addition of l-proline. Proline-deficient media such as Leibovitz L-15, Eagle minimal essential, and Dulbecco modified minimal essential did not induce DNA synthesis. However, using media such as Williams E, McCoy’s 5A, and Ham’s F-12, which are rich in l-proline, there was DNA synthesis and marked proliferation. 29

l-Proline is essential for the induction of cellular proliferation in vivo and in vitro through its effect on synthesis of intracellular collagen.

So, are any of you (not) using amino acids in your formulations, and if, why/why not?

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Found SqualENE at Jedwards http://www.bulknaturaloils.com/Products/15787-bulk-squalene-oil.aspx $138/gallon. 

How can I maximize stability?

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Still wondering about this, why not use both sodium pca AND sodium lactate?

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USA. Which regular ethanol, Belassi?

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No offense taken, there are references in the wiki article, but looking at them they might not answer the specific question of p.acnes skin surface vs follicle/dermis population. I looked around for a bit and haven’t seen any papers looking into it. 

The commonly used comedogenicity index could be useless, or it could be useful, we don’t know, in any case It’s a bit suspicious that there are no human follow up studies. 

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We don’t know if rabbit ear comedogenicity matters at all for human acne progression. We don’t even know if its comedogenic on human skin. And If you look at the reviews of coconut oil on acne.org, it gets 4.1/5 whereas Jojoba oil gets 4.2/5, not much of a difference.

From the wiki on p.acnes it seems quite clear that there’s not much of it on the skin:

“It is usually just barely detectable on the skin of healthy preadolescents. “
“P. acnes bacteria live deep within follicles and pores, away from the surface of the skin. In these follicles, P. acnes bacteria use sebum, cellular debris and metabolic byproducts from the surrounding skin tissue as their primary sources of energy and nutrients. Elevated production of sebum by hyperactive sebaceous glands (sebaceous hyperplasia) or blockage of the follicle can cause P. acnes bacteria to grow and multiply.[5]”

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Well it is A question, but not sure if it has much relevance if using it at 2% as proposed, as the comedogenicity study usually referred to tests each ingredient at 10% concentration in propylene glycol on rabbit ears: http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc1989/cc040n06/p00321-p00333.pdf

And does a plate teste mimic in vivo topical application? 

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Still, lauric acid has in vivo mouse model results used as a anti p.acnes topical, whereas no such data for monolaurin exits to my knowledge. So why not just use lauric acid?

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Why lauricidin over regular lauric acid?

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Cool that Skinceuticals and Jan E. Zielinski + Sheldon R. Pinnell patented a Ferulic + Vitamin C + Vitamin E combo and published the nature paper on it: http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v125/n4/full/5603565a.html

Regarding HA, the devil is, as usual, in the details. You can get more than two types, you can get a range from a few thousand Dalton to several hundred thousand Dalton MW molecules.

Here’s a paper looking at in vivo effects of 20 kDa to 320 kDa : 2008 Low Molecular Weight Hyaluronic Acid: Its Effects on Epidermal Gene Expression & Skin Ageing https://personal-care.evonik.com/product/personal-care/en/media-center/downloads/publications/Documents/sofw-hyacare-50.pdf

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Got it. Only for the potential benefits, not at all for the nice deep green color… Interesting stuff.
So basically the FDA doesn’t want to see any ingredients that are purely used as colorants except for the ones they’ve approved?

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Key is to find the exceptions, hence why I am asking

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Sure, so you’re saying Chlorophyllin is viable in a facial cleanser, if the product is labeled as having deodorant properties? And thanks a lot for the offer! But I can just get some from Ebay

I’m not using (0.2%) green tea as a colorant, although the color is a nice side effect, so I don’t see the issue using it - or am I missing something here?

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There’s no Chlorophyllin in the green tea. I use green tea extract too, which is brown. 

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“So I don’t quite understand, do you want to add these products to your cleanser because they are a formulation improvement or because they might be? 
It makes a huge difference for those on the consumer side.”

As I noted, using it as a colorant with potential benefits, using powdered green tea AND green tea extract. Whether the consumer thinks that’s a good idea is up to them. I will include instructions to leave the cleanser on the face for longer to increase the chances of a positive effect.

Now keep in mind this thread is about colourants

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Sorry, misread the article! 

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“ In skin washed with SLES, significant reduction of TEWL was evident two hours after application of formulations loaded with panthenol when compared with control and vehicle. It is concluded that skin integrity is maintained by the improved protective effect of 1.0% panthenol added to the formulation.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21982351/?i=4&amp;from=panthenol skin

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Sure, but I am saying that it could still have an effect even in a cleanser, we just don’t know. In any case it imparts a very nice green color to it As one of the pantheol studies you cited in the other thread showed, 1% in a cleanser solution had a positive effect to TEWL 20 min after application. 

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Still, we know that using a cleanser daily reduces acne lesion count by around 30% after two months and in one study two cleanser formulas performed differently - so I would not rule out that some actives can have an effect even if left on briefly.

Choi, J. M., Lew, V. K., & Kimball, A. B. (2006). A Single‐Blinded, Randomized, Controlled Clinical Trial Evaluating the Effect of Face Washing on Acne Vulgaris. Pediatric dermatology, 23(5), 421-427.

Fulghum, D. D., Catalano, P. M., Childers, R. C., Cullen, S. I., & Engel, M. F. (1982). Abrasive cleansing in the management of acne vulgaris. Archives of dermatology, 118(9), 658-659.

Smith, R. N., Mann, N. J., Braue, A., Mäkeläinen, H., & Varigos, G. A. (2007). A low-glycemic-load diet improves symptoms in acne vulgaris patients: a randomized controlled trial. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 86(1), 107-115. 

Abels, C., Reich, H., Knie, U., Werdier, D., & Lemmnitz, G. (2014). Significant improvement in mild acne following a twice daily application for 6 weeks of an acidic cleansing product (pH 4). Journal of cosmetic dermatology, 13(2), 103-108.

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Do you have any references? 

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The paper I referenced above proves there is a relationship. The following paper: http://scholarsresearchlibrary.com/ABR-vol2-iss1/ABR-2011-2-1-181-186.pdf proves salt can help thicken Koji gels too.

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Using some Kaolin clay helps, but I want to stick to “oil drawing” clays for this formula, allegedly Kaolin clay does not have that property.

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Anyone else?