[TLNCJM]

Yes, I am aware of Susan’s blog. I’m really glad that people find it so helpful!

I just want to reiterate that I have seborrheic dermatitis, so I avoid the application of oils and butters to my scalp. Here is an excellent article that explains it very well!
http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1308503

Esters like DPMA don’t present this problem, of course. So, it would be a good one for me to try. Thanks again for the recommendation.

Caprylic/Caprylic Triglyceride is a good emollient for those of us with seborrheic dermatitis since it is composed of caprylic (c8) and capric (c10) fatty acids. These are medium-chain triglycerides that do not support the growth of Malassezia yeasts.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10507598

But it turns out that Malassezia may not be responsible after all!
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep24877

[TLNCJM]

You’re right, BTMS-50 is a great emulsifier, @jiroband. I can use it on my face with no reaction whatsoever. I may give it another try but I’m going to wait until I make this next formula with Glyceryl Stearate/PEG-100 Stearate and see how it feels.

Jojoba oil is another great suggestion that I really appreciate! Unfortunately, I suffer from seborrheic dermatitis, so I will have to stick with silicones. Jojoba oil is composed mostly of free fatty acids that have carbon chain lengths between C16 and C24. Since these are longer than C10, they can be metabolized by Malassezia, which are lipophilic yeasts.
http://www.biochemj.org/content/ppbiochemj/108/2/225.full.pdf

I will keep Di-PPG-2 Myreth-10 Adipate in mind! I see it is available from Lotioncrafter at a lower price.
http://www.lotioncrafter.com/cromollient-sce.html

Hi @David! Cosmocil CQ (Polyaminopropyl Biguanide) is a 20% aqueous solution. 1.5% of that is equal to 0.3% active PHMB.
http://dewolfchem.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/2014_11_Cosmocil-CQ_TDS_lowres.pdf

I agree that it’s a likely culprit so I don’t think I’ll be using it again.

[TLNCJM]

Thanks, @jiroband. I was aware of SMC Taurate but have never used it. I may purchase some and try it if the other surfactants don’t work out for me.

You make an excellent point about the need for anti-irritants. I will purchase some Aloe Vera 200X Powder from Lotioncrafter and start using it in my formulas.

[TLNCJM]

Thank you all for your replies. Actually, the formula above is the one I haven’t made yet. I was not clear in my original post. Sorry, guys. Here is the one I made a few weeks ago that seemed to cause more itching:

Water 69.3%
Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride 8%
Propanediol 6%
Cyclopentasiloxane 5%
Dimethicone 1000 cSt 5%
Behentrimonium Methosulfate (and) Butylene Glycol (and) Cetyl Alcohol 4%
Polyaminopropyl Biguanide 1.5%
Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride 1%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
Lactic Acid Q.S.

I usually use citric acid to adjust the pH but I wanted to try out the Lactic Acid 90% I purchased from Lotioncrafter. The pH of that conditioner was around 5. That formula also did not contain any climbazole or potassium sorbate.

I am sorry that I made it seem like I was trying to identify the ingredient(s) causing the increased itching. It could have been the biguanide, BTMS-50, or even the cationic guar as @Bill_Toge mentioned. I’m hoping it’s not the cationic guar since I need that for increased deposition of the silicones. This next formula will not use BTMS-50 or the biguanide.

Those are all great suggestions, @jiroband. I will be using potassium sorbate to preserve this next formula, so I think I’ll keep the pH below 5. This will be pretty close to the average skin pH of 4.7. As far as the silicones, you’re right, 10% is a lot. However, the formula with BTMS-50 contained the same amount and my hair did not feel greasy at all. In fact, that formula did not leave it feeling conditioned. I’m Caucasian and I have straight hair but it still doesn’t feel as soft as I want it to. I’m just wondering if the dimethicone will still be necessary or if the cyclopentasiloxane/dimethiconol will be enough.

@Belassi, that’s a very good idea. I think that’s what I’ll do if this next formula gives me the same kind of itching.

@Bill_Toge, thanks for letting me know about the cationic guar. I may reduce that to 0.5%. If I choose to keep the silicones at 10%, will 5% Glyceryl Stearate/PEG-100 Stearate be able to emulsify them?

Thanks again for your help!

[TLNCJM]

Thanks for the great comment, @DragoN!

I agree with you completely about SLS. I’ve found that Cocamidopropyl Betaine, even in formulas without SLS or SLES, makes my scalp itch as well. So CAPB is another one I avoid.

It’s funny you mention chitosan! Several months ago I came across the below article on chitosan oligosaccharides.
In Vitro Antimicrobial and Antioxidant Activities of Chitosan Oligosaccharides

After learning that COSs have activity against Malassezia, I purchased 25 grams of this powder.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-quality-CHITOSAN-Oligosaccharide-Water-Soluble-Powder-25g-food-grade-/291546346329

I still haven’t opened it because I was trying to decide on a formulation. I like this one:

Water 77.3%
Coco Glucoside 10%
Propanediol 7.5%
Chitosan Oligosaccharide 2%
Climbazole 2%
Sclerotium Gum 0.5%
Phenoxyethanol/EHG 0.5%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
Lactic Acid Q.S.

I purchased the Sclerotium Gum to use as a non-ionic thickener when I couldn’t get HEC to work in a glucoside shampoo. I had a much easier time using HEC to stabilize a lotion. I just dispersed the HEC into the hot oils and stirred before combining my two phases.

I have found Xanthan Gum the easiest to work with in a shampoo but it’s obviously incompatible with the cationic chitosan oligosaccharide.

By the way, the most recent shampoo I made with Sodium Cocoyl Apple Amino Acids and Sodium Cocoamphoacetate is making my scalp itch. I am rejecting those surfactants. I’m going to try a combination of Coco Glucoside and the anionic Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate in another shampoo formula. I purchased some SLL from Ingredients To Die For and I really like how it smells.

[TLNCJM]

Thanks for the suggestion, Belassi!

[TLNCJM]

I want to thank everyone who offered me their guidance.
This forum is a valuable resource I’m so thankful to have available.
Here is the shampoo formula I ended up with:

Water 70.8%
Coco Glucoside 15%
Propanediol 10.5%
Xanthan Gum 2%
Climbazole 1%
Phenoxyethanol/EHG 0.5%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
Citric Acid Q.S.
Sodium Copper Chlorophyllin Q.S.

I leave this shampoo on my scalp for several minutes before rinsing. It has dramatically reduced the itching of my scalp, which is a wonderful feeling! Having said that, this formula leaves my hair feeling a little too dry. So, I purchased some new ingredients to try. Here is the next formula I came up with:

Water 72.5%
Sodium Cocoyl Apple Amino Acids 10%
Propanediol 10%
Sodium Cocoamphoacetate 5%
Climbazole 1%
Sclerotium Gum 0.8%
Phenoxyethanol/Ethylhexylglycerin 0.5%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
Citric Acid Q.S.

Here is a picture of my second shampoo, thickened with Sclerotium Gum:

After that, I made a conditioner with Incroquat Behenyl TMS-50. Making the emulsion went smoothly! Unfortunately, it wasn’t a good conditioner for me because the BTMS-50 seems to irritate my scalp. So, I am excited about trying a completely different formula. I will start a new thread about that.

In the short time I’ve been formulating for myself, I’ve accumulated so many ingredients! That is totally fine because I’m having a lot of fun making these products.

Thanks again!

[TLNCJM]

Thanks, @Bobzchemist!

[TLNCJM]

Thanks, @Belassi and @Bill_Toge. I suspect that I have a sensitivity to Sodium Benzoate, DMDM Hydantoin, and the Isothiazolinones, among others. I have never been bothered by products preserved with Phenoxyethanol, even on my face. I have used Paula’s Choice Earth Sourced Cleansing Gel for a long time, which I just realized is preserved with Ethylhexylglycerin, Phenoxyethanol, and Potassium Sorbate. This makes me a little more confident about using it in a shampoo.
http://www.dermstore.com/product_Earth+Sourced+Perfectly+Natural+Cleansing+Gel_54610.htm

During my first experiment, after adding Potassium Sorbate to the water, I used my stick blender to make sure it was dissolved. Upon doing so, the water began to fizz in the same way that soda does when poured into a glass. It took a while for the water to become clear again. Was this normal? I’m thinking I can get by without Potassium Sorbate anyway since I have 0.5% Climbazole.

[TLNCJM]

@Bill_Toge,

Is the Phenoxyethanol/Ethylhexylglycerin blend perfectly fine to use in non-ethoxylated surfactant systems? Will it suffer reduced efficacy in a shampoo consisting of 15-20% alkyl polyglucosides and 70-75% water? I am going to solubilize the preservative in 1,3-Propanediol before adding it to the water.

[TLNCJM]

@Bill_Toge, thanks for sharing that info with me! The surfactant level in my first experiment was 25%. I’m going to try a total of 15% this time. This will leave me with a little less than 8% on an actives basis, though.

I may still try using 2% Xanthan Gum just to see how it turns out.

@Bobzchemist, I really like your suggestion of making a 1% solution of the Chlorophyllin. Will it be okay if I use some of my 1,3-Propanediol instead of ethanol? If so, I’ll just make up 30ml of a 1% solution that can be stored in a glass bottle.

Thanks again for your help, everyone!

[TLNCJM]

@Bobzchemist and @RobertG,

Thank you for your replies! I did some experimenting several weeks ago after receiving my ingredients. I felt very silly after using 0.05% of the Chlorophyllin powder, which produced a very dark green, just as you said, Bob! I will definitely keep your suggestion in mind. Do you think it will be okay for me to store the dry powder in a clean jar? I’ll just throw a tiny amount in when making my shampoo.

I tried dissolving Climbazole in Propanediol, which I poured into a beaker and heated in a warm water bath. It dissolved very easily! So, the isopropanol won’t even be necessary. I just hope this is genuine Climbazole I’m working with. I purchase it on eBay here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-7-Pure-CLIMBAZOLE-Powder-Crystals-Cosmetic-Grade-Lab-Chemical-Preservative-/161831116554

Climbazole is available from AK Scientific at very affordable prices. I’m worried they might not sell it to me, though, since I’m just a private individual and not a business.
http://aksci.com/item_detail.php?cat=F670

I’ll definitely experiment with my HEC but I decided to try Xanthan Gum first. I purchased some Keltrol CG-SFT from Lotioncrafter and used 1%. Once the Climbazole had dissolved, I dispersed the Xanthan Gum in the Propanediol, which I then added to the water. I then used my stick blender to hydrate it very easily. 1% Xanthan resulted in a shampoo that was a little too thin for my liking. I’m going to try using 2% Xanthan next. Would 3% be too much? I want to try using Xanthan alone instead of in combination with HEC for right now.

I will be trying the combination of Decyl and Coco Glucosides next but I first tried using 25% of the Decyl Glucoside/Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate blend. I won’t be using it again in a shampoo. It produced more lather than I needed but still didn’t leave my hair feeling clean enough. The Tom’s of Maine shampoo cleanses my scalp and hair well and Decyl Glucoside is the only surfactant in that product. I think the Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate in that blend was the problem. I am using up the result of my first experiment as a body wash and it works fine for that.

I purchased some Phenoxyethanol/Ethylhexylglycerin from overseas. I will use 1% of this preservative in my shampoo. The glucosides will not interfere with Phenoxyethanol at all since they are not ethoxylated?

So, here is my next formula:

Water 74.3%
Decyl Glucoside 10%
Propanediol 6%
Coco Glucoside 5%
Xanthan Gum 2%
Xylitol 1%
Phenoxyethanol/Ethylhexylglycerin 1%
Climbazole 0.5%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
Citric Acid q.s.
Sodium Copper Chlorophyllin q.s.

[TLNCJM]

@MarkBroussard and @Bobzchemist,

Thank you both for your excellent advice!

I was going to include Glycine Betaine Extract in my shampoo because I read in this document that it would improve foam texture as well as increase the moisture content in my hair.
http://www.in-cosmetics.com/__novadocuments/7930

My hair is quite dry so these benefits were appealing to me. However, if the Glycine Betaine is going to make the shampoo as sticky as you say, I’m going to leave it out. Stickiness would be unacceptable. I only have 4 ounces of Glycine Betaine on its way to me so it’s not a big deal if I need to leave it out. Just 5% will really make it sticky? If I omit the Betaine, maybe I can increase the 1,3-Propanediol? How much of the 1,3-Propanediol can I use without compromising foam?

I also realize Isopropyl Alcohol may reduce foam as well but it’s necessary to dissolve climbazole, which is essential in this shampoo. Do you think I might be able to dissolve climbazole in the 1,3-Propanediol or surfactants, instead? If so, I could eliminate the IPA.

I suspect I have a sensitivity to Sodium Benzoate so I hadn’t considered using that preservative. Thankfully, Potassium Sorbate has never bothered me. I’ve tolerated it well even in facial cleansers. This is why I decided on the combination of Potassium Sorbate and Polyaminopropyl Biguanide. I felt it was a broad-spectrum combination that would still be “gentle” enough for my sensitive scalp. I did, however, purchase some Optiphen Plus just in case I would need a different preservative for some reason. I’m okay with Phenoxyethanol as an alternative because I’m not sure it irritates my skin. Parabens don’t bother me either but I know they can’t be used in this shampoo since the glucosides are nonionic.

Today I realized the irony of excluding EDTA for environmental reasons while still including Climbazole! I’ll order some Disodium EDTA and add 0.2% to the formula. I purchased Sodium Gluconate with my other ingredients but EDTA is a superior chelating agent, correct?

Since I’m already using 0.5% Climbazole anyway, can Potassium Sorbate be eliminated altogether? Climbazole should provide the same protection against other yeasts and molds, correct?

Is it still worth it to include Gluconolactone in the formula? If you recommend keeping it, I will. Otherwise, I’ll take it out because of the pH drift.

The green color is certainly nonessential but it’s something I want to add simply because it makes me happy. I purchased 10 grams and it sounds like this quantity will last quite a while if only 0.03% is needed. CI 75810 (Chlorophyllin) was used to tint the product on this page:
http://www.ouresme.com/liquid-hand-wash-aloe-vera-tea-tree/

So 0.03% is enough to achieve that same tint?

Refrigeration is a great suggestion! It’s just that I share a refrigerator with a few other people and until that changes, I’d prefer to store my personal care items in a clean cabinet. It’s also a little more convenient.

So, here is my revised formula:

Water 46.27%
Decyl Glucoside 30%
Coco Glucoside 15%
Propanediol 6%
Polyaminopropyl Biguanide 1.5%
Climbazole 0.5%
Hydroxyethyl Cellulose 0.5%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
Sodium Copper Chlorophyllin 0.03%
Citric Acid (40% aq) q.s

To summarize my remaining questions:

1) Can I solubilize Climbazole in 1.3-Propanediol or my surfactants? I realize heat will be needed.
2) Should I use more than 0.5% HEC to thicken? Will there be a reduction in viscosity over time?
3) Are there good reasons to include Gluconolactone or Sodium Gluconate?
4) 0.03% Chlorophyllin is the most that I would need for a lime green tint?

I hope I haven’t annoyed you. I promise that isn’t my intent. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge and advice with me! I greatly appreciate it!

[TLNCJM]

Thanks, luiscuevasii. That’s good to know.

[TLNCJM]

I see! I have read in some of your other posts that you use Glucamate VLT for thickening, which I of course don’t have access to. Do you think a shampoo thickened with HEC will eventually thin out? You’re right, I’ll just need to experiment with all of this.

[TLNCJM]

Hi Belassi!

Yes, I’m definitely going to include potassium sorbate at 0.5% for yeasts and molds. However, I wasn’t sure that it had enough activity against bacteria? Also, have you had any luck in preventing or minimizing the discoloration?

Actually, the glucosides seem to be the only surfactants I don’t react to. Shampoos with SLS, SLeS, SCI, or sulfosuccinates all seem to exacerbate my scalp itching. Here are the inactive ingredients in ketoconazole 2% shampoo:

coconut fatty acid diethanolamide, disodium monolauryl ether
sulfosuccinate, F.D.&C. Red No. 40, hydrochloric acid, imidurea,
laurdimonium hydrolyzed animal collagen, macrogol 120 methyl glucose
dioleate, perfume bouquet, sodium chloride, sodium hydroxide, sodium
lauryl ether sulfate, and purified water

That’s a prescription shampoo that makes my scalp terribly itchy. The only commercial shampoo I’ve been able to tolerate so far is Tom’s of Maine Baby Shampoo and Wash Fragrance Free. When I look at the ingredients, I don’t see a preservative, though. Here they are:

Water, Decyl Glucoside, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Xanthan Gum, Sodium Gluconate, Sodium Lactate, Lactic Acid, Citric Acid
http://www.tomsofmaine.com/product-details/baby-shampoo-wash

I was actually going to include Sodium Gluconate in my shampoo formula as a chelating agent but then I read this:

“The outstanding property of sodium gluconate is its excellent chelating
power, especially in alkaline and concentrated alkaline solutions.”
http://www.jungbunzlauer.com/en/products/gluconates/sodium-gluconate.html

So would Sodium Gluconate still be useful as a chelating agent in an acidic shampoo? I’d rather not use EDTA for environmental reasons.

Sorry, I forgot to mention the purpose of the isopropyl alcohol! It’s a solvent for the climbazole, which I’m using for its activity against Malassezia. This species of yeast has been implicated in seborrheic dermatitis. Will even just 1.5% IPA kill my foam?

Thanks for your reply, Belassi. I look forward to learning more from you.

[TLNCJM]

Hello everyone,

I’m Tim, from North Carolina. I’m sadly afflicted with seborrheic dermatitis. The shampoos prescribed by my dermatologist only irritate my scalp even further. So, I’m going to be formulating shampoos and conditioners for my personal use only. I look forward to participating in this forum!

Regards,
Tim