[Sponge]

You’re using 12% rice bran wax and 1% glyceryl stearate for a lotion? Per usual, we need the whole formula in your OP to be helpful. That’s a lot of wax and
… I guess a normal amount of glyceryl stearate but low if it’s (one of) your primary. 

[Sponge]

Nope, no suggestions if you have no problems. :p 

And my mistake, no, at 16% I think you have plenty of room for more pigment. Have you ever heard of the Hourglass Confession lipsticks? I just tried to look them up for reference and I can’t find the advertised amount of pigment. I want to say they have something insane like 40%?

[Sponge]

I’ve used bergamot, lavender 40/42 and black pepper. It seems like you can’t find any men’s fragrance (EDP, EDT, shaving creams, shower gels) these days without bergamot, if that’s helpful? (Was it always this way and I didn’t notice?)

[Sponge]

But all preservatives kill microbes, and by nature they are irritating to the skin.

Perhaps a bit of a false premise? I’m not debating that certain preservatives irritate certain individuals, but the way it’s written it reads “preservatives (by method of killing microbes) irritate the skin.” As in, antimicrobials irritate skin solely based on the fact they’re antimicrobial. Hope I’m making sense. 

[Sponge]

I believe BDP-2 was designed to mimic lanolin so as far as substitutes, you probably want to compare what you can substitute lanolin for…

Before you rule lanolin out though, consider how much you’ll be using in a matte styling product. Lanolin USP won’t impart a smell and at the concentration you’ll likely be using, wont get a chance to impart color either. (They have clear (clearer than petroleum) lanolin btw but it’s cost prohibitive for most applications.)

[Sponge]

What’s the magnesium stearate for?

Also, 1.5 : 3.0 pigment : oil phase is really high to begin with, right?

Are you experiencing any problems with this pigment level?

[Sponge]

Really? Dimethicone (as a topper base) won’t disturb a liquid lip in real life? Interesting. 

Anyway, yeah, I think you buried the lead. Here’s the whole ingredient list you’re referencing, right?

Dimethicone, Synthetic Beeswax, Tocopherol, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter), Tocopherol, Trimethylsilylamodimethicone, Octoxynol-40, Isolaureth-6, Propylene Glycol, Propylparaben. May Contain: Mica (CI 77019), Titanium Dioxide (CI 77891), Iron Oxides (CI 77491, CI 77492, CI 77499), Red 7 Lake (CI 15850), Galactoarabinan.

I think there’s more going on than dimethicone, beeswax and shea butter. This isn’t my wheelhouse whatsoever so I’m interested in what others will say. I think the amodimethicone, octoxynol, isolaureth and propylene glycol may play a role in the texture. 

I’m not saying they’re lying, but Senegence doesn’t seem to put their full ingredients list out there. Their lip balm has water in it and nothing but oils, no emulsifier. 

[Sponge]

Typically we ask everyone to post their entire formulation along with what they’ve tried so far so we can better understand and thus, make better recommendations. 

I don’t know if particle size is to blame without knowing the particle size but I’m guessing no. What are you using for thickeners/emulsifiers/dispersion/suspending agents?

[Sponge]

Have you tried this formula, either from someone else or made yourself? Dimethicone is not a lip gloss base and I’d be very surprised if any wax/butter was able to change that. 

[Sponge]

I don’t know if you’re going to get a viscosity high enough to suspend oxides with the shear thinning necessary for a spray. 

[Sponge]

Wait, so what’s the boron nitride for?

[Sponge]

I don’t know what bothers me the most; grammar mistakes, the 1000%  claim (I just want to hit that person with a math book) or hydroquinone in a soap that they recommend to store in the fridge because hello!!!! it oxidizes!!!

The grammar. Easily the grammars. 

[Sponge]

You follow the same formula for loose/pressed or do you add glycerin when pressing?

Kaolin (I’m sure you know) has an incredible capacity for binding both water and oil. I’m wondering if the alcohol displaced the oil/glycerin from the surface and drove it into the kaolin to a more even distribution? Hopefully somone will correct me. 

What makes you say it dries out? A pressed swatch versus a loose swatch feels different? Pressed powders don’t yield as much as loose if you’re casually picking some up with a finger or brush. 

[Sponge]

I believe quarternium-90 bentonite can thicken dimethicone with relatively low use, but it requires significant agitation for upwards of a half hour. 

[Sponge]

What about foam? Obviously water is easy, but all silicones for this purpose would be foam-reducing, right? (I just saw a foaming makeup primer today but I wasn’t able to look at the ingredients. If it’s like 99% of primers, it contains a great deal of silicones.)

[Sponge]

Maybe it was tin coated mica? But like you said, it would need to be shaken as micelles water isn’t likely to suspend anything .

[Sponge]

Yes. That’s ridiculous. If you browsed a supermarket based on the listed prices then got to the cash register and they rang up differently, you’d insist on the listed price. If you agree to a certain price, you can’t increase it because you see a demand. 

[Sponge]

DMSO would definitely be an irresponsible option. I remember reading an article about DMSO accidentally increasing the absorption of incidental heavy metals found in whatever raw material they were using. Unfortunately I can’t find it because every result I see is people claiming to “detox” with DMSO. Ironic, huh?

[Sponge]

I would use 80 over 20 but I don’t see a solubilizer really making sense for improving fragrance. I suppose if you’re curious enough you’ll just have to try it with a small batch? I don’t see it hurting either.

[Sponge]

Nylon-12? Corn starch?

[Sponge]

What are you hoping to do with the polyethylene?

[Sponge]

I see a lot of companies opting for synthetic fluorphlogopite, but cost may be a concern and I believe it’s mostly about changing up the ingredient list to remove talc. @BobzChemist already went over my head haha so I’ll just say, @SoExcited, in my experience, kaolin alone may not work as your primary filler. Being a clay, it is going to suck up an incredible amount of oil. You need lubrication for everything to hold and perform well. It’d result in a very heavy, potentially greasy formula. Finally, more and more brands are returning to corn starch. Corn starch will have its own unique set of hurdles though, so if you’re just starting out, perhaps the alternatives are better. 

[Sponge]

Hi ggpetrov,

Like yourself, I’m just here to learn and experiment for my own needs, so I apologize for the lack of citations. 

As far I know, normal emulsifiers will not cause any harm to the stratum corneum. If there’s an excess of emulsifier (wouldn’t be much), it may connect with oil upon agitation, but that’s what soap does. And emulsifier, by definition, aren’t as open to connecting with all types of oils. My understanding is that’s what put surfactants in their category - amongst other things, their affinity to combine with oils. Correct me if I’m wrong, anyone, as I’m sure this is a poor explanation. 

If nothing else, hopefully you agree that the worst that can happen with emulsifier is that it combines with facial oil and makes a pretty gross cream.

[Sponge]

This is likely entirely unhelpful, but this just happened with Huda Beauty’s Rose Gold Remastered palette. A volume of air exists just below the surface, causing the top layer of “crust” to collapse when pressed. Maybe you could search and see if anyone is talking about that? Sorry, I think that’s the best I can do without a formula. 

[Sponge]

Ah, I love this forum. Thank you all for your replies.