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My definition of “small scale” would involve a very small number of study participants, somewhere in the range of five to twenty volunteers (or paid) participants having their volar forearms tested over a period of between two and twelve weeks.

The measurements would be those same skin health parameters tested by a lab kit like the “Sequential Bio” testing service.

Ideally, the cost and time would total about 0.0000002% that of a multi-phase trial of an oncology drug candidate.  I am not Pfizer.

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markfuller@microformulation.com

Did you notice any differences in final product characteristics using Trisodium Dicarboxymethyl Alaninate versus other more commonly used chelators?

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I have not tried getting a sample.

It is so new that it appears that very few chemists have ever worked with this chelating agent.

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https://www.cosmeticsdesign.com/Article/2020/07/30/Codex-Beauty-s-preservative-tech-is-available-to-license

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I am aware of the fundamental differences chemically.  I am also aware that ethanol and propanol isomers when used in excess on the skin are indeed drying.

I realize now is that what I was really trying to ask was what are generally recognized and commonly held consumer perceptions about ingredient nomenclature in which the modifier ‘alcohol’ appears?

In other words, my question was not about chemistry or dermatology but rather about consumer market perceptions these days (whether they be factually correct or not).  Unfortunately, the reality is that health and scientific misinformation and ignorance can be powerful forces in the marketplace (whether we like it or not).

I will refer to recently published market research reports and beauty consumer surveys.  Thanks!

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Thanks!

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@MarkBroussard

What are your preferred EcoCert-compliant preservative systems when you formulate a body cream or lotion targeted to achieve a final pH in the 4.8-5.3 range? 

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Why are so few formulators formulating with Pickering Emulsions in 2020?

What would you suspect are the reason(s) for this apparent lack of popularity of Pickering Emulsions as an emulsification technique among cosmetic chemists?

Thanks!

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Hi Nathcosmetic, no I do not have a specific suggestion of use levels.

I theorize that if you use both together in a formula containing a relatively high percentage  of unsaturated oils you would probably get a more broad spectrum antioxidation effect and a stronger and longer lasting protection from rancidity.

I have not received any comments yet.

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@nagarayeva001
Please refer to my comment and question immediately preceding this message.

Thanks again so much!

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@nagarayeva
Thanks!  This is immensely helpful.

If you had the option of choosing any emulsifier system for the goal of producing an O/W body cream containing between 18%-30% oil phase that has exceptional sensory skin feel and slip and excellent stability, would you be more likely achieve this goal using a polymeric or traditional emulsion system?

Thanks again!

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@nagarayeva001
Would you adjust the emulsification system by doubling the quantity while keeping their relative proportions the same  in order to make up for the lack of Arlacel 165? 

In other words, would the adjusted emulsifing formula look something like the following with the objective of fully stabilizing an O/W body cream with approximate oil phase of 25%-30%?

SEPINOV EMT 10 - 2.00%
SEPIMAX ZEN - 1.00%

Thank you so much!

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@nagarayeva001
If you had to eliminate the Arlacel 165 from the formula, how would you adjust the emulsification system containing the SEPINOV EMT 10 and SEPIMAX ZEN in order to achieve a pleasant skin feel and relatively silicone-like slip in this O/W body cream formula?

What ingredients (not containing silicone) would you add to the SEPINOV EMT 10 and SEPIMAX ZEN?  Would you retain the Cetyl Alcohol?  How might the proportions change?

I understand that this type of emulsification system missing the Arlacel 165 will possibly or likely fall short of the pleasant sensory effects afforded by one containing Arlacel 165.  Nevertheless, I am curious what else you could add (that does not contain silicone), if anything, that would possibly achieve a similar sensory result in a O/W cream as a cream containing Arlacel 165.

Thanks so very much!

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@nagarayeva001
Which of these emulsifier combinations do you think would work best to produce a stable, opaque white, O/W body cream with an approximate 25%-30% oil phase that has pleasant skin feel with a velvety smooth slip?

I do not want to produce a gel, but rather an opaque O/W body cream.

I am completely open to the idea of combining a polymeric emulsifier with a conventional emulsifier or even a “natural” bio-based emulsifier, like one from the MONTANOV series of emulsifiers.

Do you have any suggested emulsifier combinations (polymeric + traditional; and polymeric + “natural” or other combinations of three) that would likely produce an aesthetically pleasing and stable opaque white body cream with elegant and velvety skin feel and silicone-like slip (without the use of silicone)?

Thanks very much for letting me pick your brain!

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@nagarayeva001
If you added 2.5% of SEPINOV EMT 10 to an O/W emulsion with a 30% oil phase; approximately what percentage of SEPIMAX ZEN (INCI: Polyacrylate Crosspolymer-6) would you add to the same emulsion as a co-emulsifier to achieve a pleasing skin feel and velvety slip?

Would this combination of emulsifiers (SEPINOV EMT + SEPIMAX ZEN) match well with Carbopol as a thickener and texturizer to achieve an elegant skin feel and smooth slip?

I would imagine that you would have to get the proportions right of a combination of two polymeric emulsifiers plus Carbopol in the same formula in order to avoid balling and other undesirable effects.

Thanks again @nagarayeva001, your contributions are always incredibly valuable and enlightening!

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What are your impressions of SOLAGUM TARA, also by SEPPIC (INCI: Ceasalpina spinosa gum), as a synergistic thickener and texturizer to combine with SEPINOV EMT 10 or other polymeric emulsifiers for a soft skin feel that is less stringy than xanthan gum?

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@ngarayeva001
What do think about the idea of employing a completely different emulsifier while adding a very low % of SEPIPLUS™ 400 to act solely as a film former and thereby serve the texture enhancement function of dimethicone in the formula? 

In other words, do you think you might still be able to match (or closely approximate) the sensory profile of dimethicone by using a very low %  of SEPIPLUS™ 400?

Thanks again! 

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@ngarayeva001
Would you use SEPIPLUS™ 400 to supplant a carbomer or carbopol thickening agent in a formulation?  Or would you consider using SEPIPLUS™ 400 in combination with a carbomer or carbopol as their functions do not overlap?

Thanks again for your many invaluable contributions!

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Kem Nat β sounds like an interesting solution.  To the extent that the benzyl alcohol’s scent is not too prominent and it remains an effective preservative at pH between 5.5 and 7.0, Kem Nat β would appear to be nearly perfect.

The great thing about benzyl alcohol is that the scent it does give off is lightly floral and pleasant.  Even when it degrades into benzaldehyde the resulting scent is almond-like.

You can’t go wrong with a lightly perceptible floral note that degrades into a lightly perceptible almond note.  It is my impression that as a general rule very light floral and almond scents are perceived as pleasing to the vast majority of the population.  Am I crazy for thinking this?

Are there any other Ecocert-compliant preservatives that are low or no scent/low or no odor?

Thanks!

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@MarkBroussard
P-Anisic Acid (dermosoft® 688 eco by Dr. Straetmans) seems like an effective fungicide with optimal function up to 5.5 pH and effectiveness up to 6.5 pH in O/W emulsions.

Does P-Anisic Acid have a pronounced scent?

Have you noticed a marked drop off in fungicidal protection with P-Anisic Acid in emulsions above 5.5 pH?

What is an example of a preservative system (Ecocert-approved or not) to which you have supplemented P-Anisic Acid as a way to fortify fungicidal protection? 

Thanks for the suggestions!

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@Belassi and everyone else

Could Spectrastat G2-N possibly/potentially provide sufficient broad spectrum anti-bacterial and anti-mold coverage to protect a product over an 18 month long shelf life?

What preservative would you add to an O/W emulsion in addition to Spectrastat G2-N in order to give (or attempt to give) a skin product an 18 month long shelf life?

I am aware that nothing is known until tested.  Knowing the most promising candidates to test is immensely helpful.

Thanks again!

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@Belassi
The study was enlightening.  Thanks!

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@Doreen
I would like to know which specific magnesium salt could be added to a skin cream that would have decent transdermal penetration without being sticky or leaving a residue on the skin.

The purpose of the magnesium salt would be as an active ingredient (a form of transdermal magnesium supplementation as in magnesium oil) to supplement magnesium, like a Epsom salt bath but in the form of a skin cream.  The main aim of its potential inclusion in a cream formula would not be for emulsion stabilization but rather as an active.  Ideally, it could perform both functions.

Is there such a thing as a magnesium salt/oil that is not sticky and does not leave a salt residue on your skin after application?  If so, what specific form of topical magnesium salt/oil would have these desirable characteristics?

Thanks again!

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@Jdawgswife76 I am not looking specifically to eliminate glycerin from a formula.  I am just curious to learn about as many options as possible.

Thanks to all for the suggestions!

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I have no objection to glycerin (or glycols) at all.  I am aware that it performs its humectant function just fine in 100s of thousands of products.  I know it is relatively cheap and can be easily found derived from 100% bio-based feedstocks.

I was just curious if there were any replacements that might perform the same functions with equal or better performance.  Of course, cost will always be an important consideration as well.

If costs be damned, what are the names of some of the better performing humectants in the long list of ingredients that could function as legitimate replacements for glycerin (aside from the kindly aforementioned 70% sorbitol solution and hyaluronic acid)?

Thanks again!